U.S. To Phase Out Incandescent Light Bulbs

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Photo credit: USA today

After being passed by Congress, Bush just signed into law a massive energy bill that will, among other things, spell the end of traditional light bulb. USA Today reports that the bill will phase out the venerable (but power-hungry) incandescent bulb over the next dozen years in favor more efficient fluorescent, halogen, and LED bulbs. Specifically, the new law holds that all light bulbs must be 25 to 35 percent more efficient by 2012 to 2014.

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A LED-based light bulb

Incandescent bulbs are highly inefficient, and today many compact fluorescent bulbs have a light quality that is similar the warm, incandescent light most of us of familiar with. Each fluorescent bulb installed will chip about $5 off your annual electricity bill. U.S. News has a great FAQ on why the bulbs are being banned, and why fluorescent bulbs are more efficient overall. How about these stats: $40 billion in savings over the years spanning 2012 to 2030, 14 fewer coal-fired power plants, and 51 million fewer tons of carbon emissions annually.

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Via: USA Today

Comments

  1. says

    It’s actually not a bad thing. I’ve been using the new bulbs and they really last a lot longer. It’s nice for me because I hate having to change the bulbs in my bathrooms :-)

  2. Fred says

    It has some potential, but the bulbs won’t last as long advertised. They get abused and their color shifts, and THEN they provide a another trash problem! The Fluorescent bulbs being the biggest problem because, the last time I checked, they still contain mercury(although less). How long before they get outlawed?…

    I really like the new LED lights. Although most of the LEDs out their right now are too blue, LED color can be changed. Too bad they are so expensive right now.

  3. rolly says

    Well in the time scale of things, it wasn’t long ago when we were using gas for lighting, and before that candles. Time to move on to newer better techs, new problems may occur, but some bright spark will one day find a solution. And of course when mass produced, it will be cheap as chips.

  4. Jane Doe says

    wow-how great these Frankenstein things will look in crystal chandeliers! Never mind the mercury toxicity -what about the stress and eye strain these horrendous things cause-not to mention the cadaverous glow they give human skin. How do they manage in Europe? Hint -they put lights on timers! What about walking more or perhaps banning SUVs. Fuck the fascist state-I’ll order my warm incandescent bulbs online from overseas-after I finish what I intend to stock-pile.

  5. people for the ethical treatment of proven technology says

    What about the cost of disposal associated with the mercury in fluorescent bulbs? What if one brakes in your house? The mercury is in vapor form!

  6. Anonymous says

    F*** the government and F*** the law. I think people with more kids should pay higher taxes because they utilize national resources. Improve public transportation so we can drive less and saves gas. Bring troops home from Iraq and save $20 billion a week. School teachers, Police and firefighters are over paid and the Teacher’s union is worst than Terrorist.

  7. My head hurts says

    I had several of these throughout my home. I had to take them all out and replace with incandescent bulbs. It turns out that these are added to my sons and my list of migraine triggers.

  8. Anonymous says

    I just bought a new light fixture.

    It comes equipped with what I assume is a current limiter. According to the insert it’s required by the Federal Energy Policy Act of 2005.

    Interesting thing is, it does not work with fluorescents (such as CFLs).

    So on one hand exiting law requires that light fixtures work only with incandescents, and on the other hand some other law is gonna ban said incandescents. We will all eventually be sitting in the dark folks. Anyone who thinks law written by idiots is gonna solve any problem is probably feeding from the pork barrel.

    One more thing, CFLs can’t be used in ovens, microwave ovens, anyplace really cold (like outdoor lighting in the cold states), in unventilated fixtures (as most are) or in a wide range of common environments. You should read the warnings on the packaging.

    Is anybody here living in the real world? The law is idiotic and unworkable on the face of it, with or without the Federal Energy Policy Act of 2005.

  9. says

    I think there is a vast problem people are overlooking. The “wasted” energy of incandecent lightbulbs doesnt have to be wasted at all. Especially in colder climates the additional watts used in conventional lightbulbs makes HEAT! That’s right, the same heat we might get from say oh a 1000watt electric floor heater or natural gas from a furnace in our basements. So when people see the 24watt flourecent vs the 100watt lightbulb keep in mind that you lose ALL of that heat energy (since flourecents dont generate much if any heat). So would you rather see a higher gas heating bill or electricity bill?

    Also note that the flourecent lights “flicker-on” This flickering is due to the activation energy required to get the light started up. This energy is typically quite high. So unless you turn on a flourecent bulb and leave it on for at least a few minutes the benefits arent noticable and can infact be more power consuming if you put them in places like closets, garages, bathrooms, etc where you are turning lights off and on quickly.

    I wish people would look into the fundamentals more closely. As for the southern states that dont see cold winters, I guess it has it’s benefits… but to ban them completely seems foolish to me.

  10. Daisy says

    Great point, Carl.

    This latest ban from the same clueless folks who banned the most reliable glass thermometer. Why the thermometer ban? Because the good ones, just like the CFL’s, were made of glass and contained — dadadadum — MERCURY!

    Probably within a week of this damned bill being signed in December, we paid an electrician over $8,000 for having installed a combination of 19 recessed and task lighting fixtures in our newly renovated kitchen. We also paid a small fortune for some gorgeous pendant lights for the kitchen. The same guy is just about ready to finish the electrical work in the master bath. And then we’ll pay him again. Everything is on dimmer switches. Everything is beautiful. There is no way in Hell that I’m EVER going to replace good lights with ugly lights. I’m stockpiling a lifetime’s worth of incandescent light bulbs. Something tells me that Bush and Gore will be doing the same.

  11. Daisy says

    “Fuck the fascist state-I’ll order my warm incandescent bulbs online from overseas-after I finish what I intend to stock-pile.”

    You wouldn’t be thinking of ordering from Europe, by any chance? Seems that it is as it ever was: Europe, is way ahead of us in the Fascistic department. The incandescent light is over over there.

    If socialism itself doesn’t end up destroying Europe, they’ll gag themselves on the sanctimonious stench of their socialistic self-righteousness.

    Get over it and go to Walmart (even though they are the Big Promoters of these CFL’s, they still offer bargains on incandescent bulbs) and stockpile away while you still have the opportunity.

  12. Julie says

    I was expecting a bunch of self-righteous pro-CFL bulb blather when I found this site. What I found was that I’m not crazy. Other people seem to agree that this new legislation is nothing but control-the-people with senselessness. And all you people who want to get rid of the much-beloved incandescent light bulb, are you aware that if you break one of these funky new bulbs, you must (1) open windows and leave the room for 15 minutes (according to my insurance company, which is no doubt already bracing itself for claims from mercury poisoning) (2) use gloves to clean up the mess, and (3) take the breakage to a hazardous waste disposal site. Good God, who is ever going to do that? What if it’s in your baby’s room? What if you drop a whole box of them? I see lawsuits on the horizon. I’m going to stockpile.

  13. Anonymous says

    Daisy said: This latest ban from the same clueless folks who banned the most reliable glass thermometer. Why the thermometer ban? Because the good ones, just like the CFL’s, were made of glass and contained — dadadadum — MERCURY!

    —-

    One would think the same laws would apply to CFLs and any fluorescent as they all contain mercury. Don’t think they’ll come up with a mercury free version either as mercury vapor emits the UV radiation that causes the phosphor coating to fluoresce. No mercury, no light.

  14. CFLuserVT says

    I use CFLs in my outdoor fixtures here in VT with many nights going down below zero. Guess what? They turn on when it’s freezing cold and they stay on.

    There are definitely better brands out there. I’ve purchased some that buzz and have a horrible color. I’ve gotten others that are quiet and and look almost like a regular bulb. Unfortunately, they don’t dim and the current dimmable CFLs suck. I hope LED technology advances quickly.

  15. says

    I have mixed feelings also about compact fluros because of the mercury content and that they really aren’t an equal replacement for the incandescent globes most of us grew up with. I do think there is a place for them however. Many people do not know that they need to be left on for several hours to realise the energy saving potential and long life of bulbs. With this in mind I designed a lamp which is beautiful and soothing when lit, uses compact fluros and provides a wonderful ambient light for any room. Here is my website if this blog permits such links: http://www.simplybeautifulspaces.com.au

  16. Alan says

    What a bunch of fools. Throwing away Earth’s future because someone’s telling you what to you.

    Here’s a clue. Gas prices are nearing $4. Electric costs are going up. SHUT UP and accept that we’re running out of resources or enjoy it when all the lights go ouy.

  17. Alan says

    AND btw, you don’t put mercury vapor where you’d eat, or use anything important. That’s where LED’s come in.

    Some of these arguments are just plain idiotic. Sounds to me like a bunch of old people who can’t accept change.

    Well, enjoy paying $6 per gallon of gas. Enjoy $500-$1000 per month on energy bills.

    BTW, switching to leds has saved me $30 per month on energy. Even though local areas has gone up $20 per month.

  18. Alan says

    Oh, while the old people here make mindless rants…

    The average new heater is 600-800 watts.

    The average incandescent is 60 watts.

    Just having 10 incandescent lights equals the cost one heater would give your bill.

    Considering most houses have more then 10 lights, you’re looking at energy costs 5 times as much as leds and a heater.

    I guess the 40′s didn’t teach you old people good math. Hopefully you’ll die soon and people can start caring about the planet.

  19. says

    Hi everyone,
    Isn’t anyone else worried about the fact that U.S. government can now TELL you which lights to use in your home? I read a comment about Europe above and was surprised. I’m an American living in Europe and I can tell you there is no such ban presently and I doubt there will be. People in Europe have seen the worst side of government out of control (WW2) and usually work pretty hard against allowing that to happen again..
    Fellow Americans, with the elections approaching, we all have the chance to fix this by voting for a candidate that will put an end to all this B.S.. No joke. I found out about this guy on the web because the traditional media is black-balling him. They won’t show him on TV. Check him out for yourself and decide:
    http://www.RonPaul2008.com

    Anyhow, I pray we never have to have a real discussion about smuggling incandescent bulbs into the USA. It used to be a free country. Now we all live in fear….. of terrorists, drugs, crime, and now the regulators that ban things we need or want. Why don’t we let people and businesses make these decisions on their own? Why do we need the government mandating light bulbs of all things?

  20. Alan says

    Smuggling lights and voting for someone so you can use lighting that causes pollution… LOL.

    I hope you guys aren’t serious. If you actually are, I suggest suicide.

    And btw, Europe is soooo fighting the way they did in WW2 that… Their allowing convicts to run over them.

    http://www.gamesdog.co.uk/news/news.phtml/6902/7926/ps2-sony-uk-prisons-playstation.phtml

    It also cost more money for taxpayers to keep a person in prison then to go to the best hotel in England.

    Granted this is England, but it’s as relevant as morons who call the government corrupt for stopping the sale of bad lighting.

  21. Daisy says

    Tyrel,

    I understand Europe has followed the lead of Cuba (w/the ban) – Australia followed and now the USA.

    I don’t mean to insult you, but your facts appear to be seriously dubious concerning the European restriction on incandescent bulbs; they are made even more questionable when you claim the media is ‘blackballing’ Ron Paul. I understand your implied point concerning the leftist bias of the media, however, I assure you, no one has forbidden him access to TV. The man did himself in even before he claimed that Martin Luther King was a pederast (and that was one of his lighter weight hallucinations). He’s no longer a candidate.

    Essentially, I agree w/your points concerning freedom. One only needs to look at the comments left by Alan ( who presents as a fairly typical member of the “environmentalist movement”) to understand that the far Left has become throughly Fascistic. He comes out squarely against freedom of choice and advocates the massive annihilation of the elderly – all in order that he can – finally – have some clean air to breath and keep his expenses down. To put it mildly, Alan has some serious control issues.

    Of course, it’s easy to see that the Alans of the world could be placed in a carefully constructed dust free environment – all contaminants removed (‘contaminants’ including all people who do not think along prescribed thought lines simultaneously dead and gone) all freedoms banished – for the greater good of the ‘environment’; all commerce destroyed; no state; no religions; one world – one thought – one hate – and, apart from the obvious catastrophes resulting from their Fascistic ideals that would certainly make them even more miserable, the fact reamains: all the Alans are innately miserable. Why? Because they started out as miseries – spoiled by parents who didn’t care enough to teach them their proper place in the Universe, and they have not one single whit of an inkling that they must change their Inner Environments .. that only in this way will they be able to understand the value of life and freedom. The Alans need to start inside and then work w/the outside. That would be a seriously effective environmental movement.

  22. Daisy says

    Alan,

    Your death threats indicate that you are dangerously angry person. So far, you’ve advocated massive death to the elderly and mass suicide for those who believe in free choice. Get help Alan.

    By the way, speaking only for myself here – I could be younger than you – and without a doubt, I have lots more money than you (a savings of $30 a month would hardly be of significance to me). Before you threaten to murder me for being rich, take this into account: I, in no way, would want to prohibit manufacturers from supplying the marketplace w/ugly, mercury dependent light-bulbs for your use – truthfully, I do object to their use in public places (because they create public ugliness) and I can assure you, I am fully capable of handling my objections w/out resorting to death threats. I see no reason not to allow the better product or idea win.

    You, on the other hand, would impose your fears and prejudices on me and anyone else you can – and you show no hesitation against using government regulations to bludgeon freedom in favor of your fears – effectively destroying freedom of market choice and a free government all in one fell swoop.

  23. says

    Alan, incandescent lights CAUSE pollution? That’s an interesting statement. I think there are many other things we do as humans that CAUSE more pollution than a light bulb. Driving gasoline cars, for example – but that’s not the point of what I’m saying……..
    I agree we do a lot of things that hurt and pollute the planet, but I don’t think the answer is FORCING people one way or the other, but educating them, and helping industry to produce more efficient/cleaner/cheaper alternatives. Wouldn’t you agree that if companies were making more earth friendly solutions that were the same cost or cheaper that you’d buy them? I would. I think most people would. So, we’ve solved the problem WITHOUT use of force or without taking away liberties. That’s what I’m talking about.

    Daisy, I appreciate you comments, too. However, I respectfully disagree with the comment about Ron Paul being racist and not being a candidate. All those rumors were debunked months ago as un-true. If you check he’s still in the race against McCain. The reason I support the guy is because he is pro- liberty and pro-constitution. He wants to find solutions that don’t involve wars. I have YET to hear other candidates speaking strongly about that and have a long voting record that supports it. What other candidate has the word “LOVE” in their campaign logo? Only Ron Paul.

    I found another video if you’re interested in checking it out. I seriously doubt you’d see something like this on TV….. it shows how closely Martin Luther King and Ron Paul are on their views. It’s shocking how similar they are.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAWClI8zsH4

    and…..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBtL3NIcAvU

    Just take a look. Thanks for reading.

  24. Jimmi says

    I think what Alan is saying about pollution from incandescent bulbs is all of the wasted electricity involved. Those light bulbs use only 3% of the electricity for lighting. 3% folks!!! And how is our electricity produced? Coal power mainly, that supports 85% of our power needs . There’s the pollution… Just think how many incandescent bulbs are being used by the 300 million plus people in America alone(5% of the world’s population)… Its staggering.

    I am currently studying for an electrical engineering degree and can say with confidence that 90% of the people today don’t truly understand the mechanism of an incandescent bulb.

    So check it out…

    Electricity goes thru the element in a bulb exactly the same an the elements in your electrical stove or oven. With the same result… Light and heat produced. An oven makes almost as efficient light bulb as our incandescent bulb(mini heaters) when it comes down to the mathematics. So its understandable to think that our “pretty” incandescent bulbs were somewhat catch 22s of our early discovery of electricity. Wonderfully innovative then, bad news now. Our technology has well since developed in the past 130 years. Why are we still on this ship of power wastefulness in that old technology?

    Then what about the mercury poison from CFLs all here are so flamboyantly ostracizing! Mercury is released in large quantities during the burning and production of electricity for the 97% incandescent power waste. As much as 1/3 of all mercury released into the air in the US are from coal burning plants. Which becomes the air your children breathe and also enters into our food chain. CfLs are easily recyclable and the mercury rendered virtually harmless when handled properly.

    So add the inefficiency numbers up and see that eliminating incandescent bulbs would be a tremendous step to saving resources, curbing pollution and keeping money in our pockets too.

    And Tyrel I understand where you are coming from with the Ron Paul points. I think he’d be a great president. Our media has done everything except be honest. When has it ever, and why did they not allow him to the Fox Channel Debate? I think that Ron Paul is very smart to continue his campaigning and getting his message out to more and more Americans who really care for the future US.

    But what should the solution be for this new phase out? Well roll along as planned possibly. When interests shift and more money(as in sales money) goes to the companies manufacturing the newer bulbs, we’ll see more pleasing looking designs of bulbs. LEDs will probbly be the way to go for their small size output and versatility. Due to the inexpensive nature of the incandescent bulbs now, we would probbly not see any real change due to the reasons listed here for keeping our rights to pick the bulbs we want. And comparatively speaking, we just need to get off our old couch and see we dont need the cobwebs on the underside were so used to having, and there are much nicer and comfy ones waiting for us to nuzzle into if we will only give it a chance.

    Oh, here is a link to an awesome site that can tell you where you can safely deposit your CFL lights for recycling in the mean time:

    http://earth911.org/search-recycle?what=CFLs&where=Dallas%2C+Texas&max_distance=100&goRecycle=

    Cheers, and happy St Patricks Day!

  25. Jimmi says

    I think what Alan is saying about pollution from incandescent bulbs is all of the wasted electricity involved. Those light bulbs use only 3% of the electricity for lighting. 3% folks!!! And how is our electricity produced? Coal power mainly, that supports 85% of our power needs . There’s the pollution… Just think how many incandescent bulbs are being used by the 300 million plus people in America alone(5% of the world’s population)… Its staggering.

    I am currently studying for an electrical engineering degree and can say with confidence that 90% of the people today don’t truly understand the mechanism of an incandescent bulb. And who would argue that most just don’t care.

    So check it out…

    Electricity goes thru the element in a bulb exactly the same an the elements in your electrical stove or oven. With the same result… Light and heat produced. An oven makes almost as efficient light bulb as our incandescent bulb(mini heaters) when it comes down to the mathematics. So its understandable to think that our “pretty” incandescent bulbs were somewhat catch 22s of our early discovery of electricity. Wonderfully innovative then, bad news now. Our technology has well since developed in the past 130 years. Why are we still on this ship of power wastefulness in that old technology?

    Then what about the mercury poison from CFLs all here are so flamboyantly ostracizing! Mercury is released in large quantities during the burning and production of electricity for the 97% incandescent power waste. As much as 1/3 of all mercury released into the air in the US are from coal burning plants. Which becomes the air your children breathe and also enters into our food chain. CfLs are easily recyclable and the mercury rendered virtually harmless when handled properly.

    So add the inefficiency numbers up and see that eliminating incandescent bulbs would be a tremendous step to saving resources, curbing pollution and keeping money in our pockets too.

    And Tyrel I understand where you are coming from with the Ron Paul points. I think he’d be a great president. Our media has done everything except be honest. When has it ever, and why did they not allow him to the Fox Channel Debate? I think that Ron Paul is very smart to continue his campaigning and getting his message out to more and more Americans who really care for the future US.

    But what should the solution be for this new phase out? Well roll along as planned possibly. When interests shift and more money(as in sales money) goes to the companies manufacturing the newer bulbs, we’ll see more pleasing looking designs of bulbs. LEDs will probbly be the way to go for their small size output and versatility. Due to the inexpensive nature of the incandescent bulbs now, we would probbly not see any real change due to the reasons listed here for keeping our rights to pick the bulbs we want. And comparatively speaking, we just need to get off our old couch and see we dont need the cobwebs on the underside were so used to having, and there are much nicer and comfy ones waiting for us to nuzzle into if we will only give it a chance.

    Oh, here is a link to an awesome site that can tell you where you can safely deposit your CFL lights for recycling in the mean time:

    http://earth911.org/search-recycle?what=CFLs&where=Dallas%2C+Texas&max_distance=100&goRecycle=

    Cheers, and happy St Patrick’s Day!

  26. Jimmi says

    Oh, and to state my point here b/c I believe I got a little off track…

    Lets move to a lighting source that performs best for the intent of its need, to light our homes, not to heat them. We have heaters that are designed solely for that purpose.

    And as far as the new law goes, look at it like the laws for maintaining safe speeds on our highways. Although some of us are aware of the need, some still chose to speed, and risk more danger. I think thats all the intent here is; to flash the yellow lights by the yellow School Crossing signs. They’re not always in the most convenient of places, but you know deep down they’re absolutely needed.

    G-Day

  27. Rich says

    Jimmi sez- Lets move to a lighting source that performs best for the intent of its need, to light our homes, not to heat them. We have heaters that are designed solely for that purpose.

    The needs of a light source depend on it’s application. You won’t be using a CFL to light an oven any time soon, nor a microwave oven. Doing so may start a fire.

    And fluorescents don’t work well in the cold, although apparently some brands work better than others.

    Even in the home, they require something non-standard, a ventilated fixture. Using one in a non-ventilated fixture may start a fire.

    CFLs have their place, but they do not, cannot and will not work everyplace, and no slogan, even a clever one is gonna change this.

    And breakage in the home is a bad thing, mercury you know. Children and CFLs are not a good mix. How one can be horrified by mercury emissions from coal-fired plants while supporting them in the home is beyond me.

    It’s better to have a choice here. Choices are good.

  28. Julie says

    To Jimmi, interesting info. I checked out the site you mentioned regarding disposal of CFLs…the closest one to my home (and I live near a large city) is more than one hour away. So I guess it’s OK to use lots of gas as long as it’s offset by my CFLs? And I have seen no explanation about why my insurance company is instructing me on how to safely dispose of these things. Well, I’m a lawyer and I can tell you why. Fear of liability. Period. What I anticipate are homeowners policies containing riders that expressly will not cover mercury poisoning, much as they don’t cover mold, unless you pay large additional premiums. Ooops, there go your savings….

  29. Daisy says

    Julie,

    Your information on the homeowner’s insurance alone is priceless. Thanks.

    I’m stockpiling incandescent bulbs.

  30. Jimmi says

    C’mon ppl, the answer is clear… LEDs…

    I’ve heard of being argumentative, but bneing stubborn and pigheadded is no way to go, and filing single file into the lazy line is not the best way to approach these things either.

    Now go figure gas stations…

    Do you think they just appeared overnight on virtually every street corner? No… Getting your recycling base closer to home calls for a demand of them.

    Be proactive while we have the opportunity or we WILL see our ammenities deplenish seemingly overnight!

    Also… Does your homeowners ins. cover poisining from the air will breathe?

  31. Willis says

    You people are crazy. I’ve never heard a group of people digging for every possible excuse to resist change at such an insane level.

    Where to begin? First off, I have CFLs in every room of my house, and I’m alive and kicking just fine. The bulbs in my ceiling fans are exposed so I got the kind with the glass around them to make them look “normal”. The light quality is great. My wife didn’t even notice I made the switch, and my friends and family are often shocked when I tell them that they’re CFLs. It’s in your head. If you buy quality bulbs, you can’t tell the difference. There is no flicker, like some people are saying there is. There is no need to leave them on for any amount of time to realize savings. That’s a myth. One they tested on “Mythbusters” no less and came to the same conclusion. I even have them outside and they work just fine in below freezing temperatures.

    As far as polution goes, yes they have mercury in them. Some of you, though, are grossly inflating the impact, though. You’re actually trying to imply that CFLs cause more waste issues when they cut down on energy consumption and landfill waste? I’ve had the same bulbs for YEARS and have put NONE of them in the trash because the haven’t burnt out. Can you say the same? And at the same time, I’ve used less energy. So which of us is making more waste? Did I mention the fact that a coal power plant spews out more mercury to produce the power to light an incandescent bulb than what a CFL does? When I do get to the point that I have to throw out a bulb, I’m far less concerned about the waste it makes compared to what some of you are doing.

    That being said, I would personally rather have a source of light that doesn’t use mercury either, like LED offers. The nice thing about the new legislature is that it’s NOT FORCING YOU TO USE CFLs!! It’s just saying that bulbs need to consume less energy by that start date. That means they can create a more efficient incandescent, improve LEDs… whatever they want, and you can CHOOSE which you prefer.

    My point is that you’re all bashing CFLs for a number of accusations that just aren’t true. Some are, like the mercury content and the fact that they CAN be ugly if you don’t get the bulbs with a cover on them. But the benefits outweigh the costs by a huge margin!

  32. Daisy says

    Willis,

    Notwithstanding your claim that there is no difference in the quality of light – there IS a difference in the quality of light produced by incandescent bulbs and CFLs. The first produce a soft light similar to candlelight. The second produces a harsh, cold light w/a greenish glare. You may not notice it, but your more discerning friends and relatives do.

    “The nice thing about the new legislature is that it’s NOT FORCING YOU TO USE CFLs!! ” In effect, it is forcing us to do exactly that/this legislation was pushed by a confluence of Big Govt. and Big Business working against the common good. Manufacturers, looking for higher profits (they’re allowed) have for years (beginning in the 60′s) been trying to foist ugly fluorescent lights off on the public – and always w/ resounding failure (the public has consistently rejected the lights because, even though cheaper, the quality of light is ugly).

    Not having been able to foist harsh, but much cheaper to manufacture, fluorescents off on the public – Big Business has gone where they don’t belong – into Govt. – in order to guarantee higher profits for themselves -Bush gets to appease environmental despots – and we get stuck with bulbs that you prefer.

    I’ve just completed a kitchen/bath renovation. New lighting has been wired at a cost of close to $10,000. Every light fixture is on a dimmer switch. The light emanating from the bulbs is soft and lovely. The fixtures will not accept CFLs and will have to be retrofitted ($$$$) in order to qualify for lighting in the brave new world where Big Govt. and Big Business collude in order to accrue more power/profits for themselves all for my “own good”. I’m not buying it.

    On a personal level and on a public level this legislation is having a negative impact. The small town I live in is already being uglified w/these horrible lights. Both cheapskates and environutties display these harsh, overly bright, ugly lights w/pride.

    Never mind the landfills, these CFLs are already wrecking the environment.

  33. Sammy K says

    ALAN SAID:
    What a bunch of fools. Throwing away Earth’s future because someone’s telling you what to you.

    Here’s a clue. Gas prices are nearing $4. Electric costs are going up. SHUT UP and accept that we’re running out of resources or enjoy it when all the lights go ouy.

    _____________________________

    Alan you douschebag go fall in a well.
    Why would all the lights go out just because gas prices are rising? Newsflash genius: we have other means of energy such as wind powered, solar powered, nuclear powered, natural gas, coal, water, etc.

  34. sammy k says

    ALAN SAID:

    What a bunch of fools. Throwing away Earth’s future because someone’s telling you what to you.

    Here’s a clue. Gas prices are nearing $4. Electric costs are going up. SHUT UP and accept that we’re running out of resources or enjoy it when all the lights go ouy.
    _____________________________
    Alan you douschebag go fall in a well.
    Just because gas prices are rising doesn’t mean all the lights are gonna go out. Newsflash genius: We have alternative forms of energy. What about nuclear, coal, wind, solar?

    Sam 1, Alan 0

  35. Julie says

    This just gets better and better. Not wanting to appear resistant to change at an insane level, I ventured to my local big box store and purchased a package of 65W CFL to replace two incandescent bulbs in my kitchen. I bought the kind that are encased in a normal looking bulb because I have recessed lighting. Cost of 2 bulbs in one package: $11.00.

    I screwed the bulbs in. The light was somewhat bluish, more in one bulb than the other. One of the bulbs made an annoying buzzing sound. Thinking perhaps it was defective, I drove back to the big box (so we’re talking 2 trips now of about 9 miles each, roundtrip) and exchanged the bulbs for a new package. I put them in and guess what? Both glow bluish, and both buzz loud enough to be noticeable. So now I have to drive back to the big box, where I will get a refund and purchase the incandescent ones that work as they are supposed to.

    One other thing: These CFLs come packaged in open-resistent hard plastic clamshell packaging. Which is made of, guess what? Oil. And they are made in and shipped from, guess where? China.

    I’d love to see an analysis of the carbon emissions from the production of these bulbs, the packaging required (can’t use cardboard due to risk of breakage & mercury), and the manufacture and shipping from China, a country not exactly reknowned for its consumer product safety. Can you say lead paint on kids’ toys?

  36. Rich says

    //You people are crazy.

    That’s an intelligent argument.

    //I even have them outside and they work just fine in below freezing temperatures.

    Some do, some don’t.

    //As far as polution goes, yes they have mercury in them. Some of you, though, are grossly inflating the impact, though.

    What is the impact of one bulb? Small unless you break it.

    What is the enviornmental impact of the 9 million CFL’s I read had been sold in CA? If you think zero, perhaps you can explain.

    //I’ve had the same bulbs for YEARS and have put NONE of them in the trash because the haven’t burnt out.

    I’ve replaced dozens and dozens. I finally started recording install and replace dates. My average life for 11 bulbs is 1.52 years, a far cry from the 5-10 year service life manufacturers claim.

    //Can you say the same?

    Nope, I use the bulbs for lighting and they burn out often. One lasted 1 day.

    //And at the same time, I’ve used less energy.

    Maybe, got any measurements? I wish I had left the original incandescant bulbs in to get a baseline power usage. As it is I have no metric with which to compare. Do you?

    //Did I mention the fact that a coal power plant spews out more mercury to produce the power to light an incandescent bulb than what a CFL does?

    Maybe it does, but the mercury from that broken CFL is in you bedroom, or worse yet, the kids bedroom. If you can’t see the difference there’s nothing more I can say.

    //That being said, I would personally rather have a source of light that doesn’t use mercury either, like LED offers.

    You can get some dim ones for from $80-$160. They are not yet a replacement for traditional lighting, although they now are good for flashlights,

    //The nice thing about the new legislature is that it’s NOT FORCING YOU TO USE CFLs!!

    According to Wikipedia it’ll take em off the market by 2014.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_Energy_Act_of_2007

  37. Daisy says

    “According to Wikipedia it’ll take em off the market by 2014.”

    Exactly. And good bulbs are getting harder to find as the manufacturers phase them out.

    Freedom? What’s that?

  38. Daisy says

    Julie,

    Take comfort. You wasted fuel, time and energy, sanity — all manner of things — but take heart: you have made some extreme environmentalist/Marxist happy w/your purchase of lousy, ugly bulbs.

  39. Rich says

    //Did I mention the fact that a coal power plant spews out more mercury to produce the power to light an incandescent bulb than what a CFL does?

    I got curious about this factoid and decided to run some numbers.

    According to the following source…

    http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/air/vol/registry/quantexamples/example12.html

    Power plant mercury emissions are 0.034 lb/GWH.

    0.034 lb/GWH = 0.01587 mg/KWH.

    Grabbing some numbers from the net, incandescents are rated at 750 HR and flourescents at perhaps 8000 hours (my personal experience is that service life is much less).

    Using these numbers for a 100W incandescent and an equivalent 23W fluorescent gives

    incandescent = 750HR * 100W = 75KWH
    Fluorescent = 8000 HR * 23W = 184 KWH.

    Given the emissions per KWH above we end up with the following emissions for the rated service life.

    fluorescent = 2.92 mg mercury
    incandescent = 1.19 mg mercury

    Looks like more mercury is emitted during the service life of a CFL, and in any case, even a low mercury CFL has 5 mg of mercury. A broken CFL releases more mercury (2x to 5x) than is emitted during the service life of either a CFL or an incandescent bulb. And it’s emitted all at once in one closed location, unlike power plant emissions.

    At any rate, the numbers don’t seem to support your statement. I say “don’t seem” because it’s not exactly clear what you are saying.

  40. says

    @Rich…

    incandescent = 750HR * 100W = 75KWH
    Fluorescent = 8000 HR * 23W = 184 KWH.

    fluorescent = 2.92 mg mercury
    incandescent = 1.19 mg mercury

    so you’re argument’s good for 1 bulb of each, but it takes 10 incand. light bulbs to match the lifetime of 1 CFL. Shouldn’t that change your final mercury output of incand. bulbs by a factor of 10?

  41. Andrea says

    Here are some other comments that I didn’t see pointed out…
    1) Flourescent lighting (which I’m not against- I have those bulbs in my own home) has a strobe-like quality which is something that children with autism and epilepsy are very sensitive too (and with autism being a growing problem in society, this could affect more and more people).

    2) Flourescent bulbs are expensive… It could be a realy struggle for working families in a sluggish economy, when we already have so many other costs on the rise (gas, food, healthcare, etc.). Adding one more expense after another onto families with young children to provide for (who often have to spend exorbatent amounts of money on child care costs) could be a very real hardship.
    3) The government shouldn’t be in the business of mandating what kind of lighting we have in our homes. Period.

    Yes, we need to be better stewards of the environment, but those who signed all this into law didn’t think of all the facts when doing so.

  42. Rich says

    //so you’re argument’s good for 1 bulb of each, but it takes 10 incand. light bulbs to match the lifetime of 1 CFL.

    Not in my experience. Since I started labeling the install and burn-out dates my average for 11 CFL bulbs is 1.52 years. Does reality count? If you use CFLs you’ll replace them often.

    Some of my CFL lifespans are incorrect BTW. When one bulb in a 3-bulb fixture burns out I don’t always notice it right away. It may be there a few months aftre burnout before I spot and replace it. I had one CFL burn out in 1 day.

    //Shouldn’t that change your final mercury output of incand. bulbs by a factor of 10?

    Not unless you can come up with a good reason why.

  43. Denise says

    I put Wal-Mart brand Great Value Fluorescent bulbs in 2 years ago. They give off hideous green lighting and it sucks as far as reading. Haven’t really noticed a savings since the electric company raised their rates by 12% again for the 3rd year in a row.

    I’m on the computer for most of the day with school & work, and get headaches from the light – and before anyone says it’s from the computer, I take a 3 minute. break every 15 minutes. I’m going back to incandescents, and stockpiling while I can.

  44. Daisy says

    Denise,

    At this very moment, CFL’s cast an ugly light; many produce an annoying buzz; their efficiency is apparently over-rated; they are very expensive and come w/a mercury content that’s dangerous . Notably, all this exists while we still have choices (albeit, rapidly “phasing out” choices) in the market-place. Just imagine what it will be like when our choices are completely eliminated (under government order!). Predictably, the price of these ugly bulbs will continue to escalate, while the quality goes down. Govt. regulated electric companies will opportunistically demand revenue increases – and get them – as their revenue goes down, in the short term, because of initial decrease in energy consumption due to CFL use. Problem is – the CFLs even out in energy consumption to the incandescent about 40% of the way through their life span. Don’t expect electric companies to lower their prices due to this fact.

    How can I predict such dire effects, a rabid socialist-environmentalist may squawk? For the exact same reasons I predicted normal household appliance quality would become degraded once US government regulations overtook efficient production/competition/freedom in order to appease socialistic goals. Anyone out there think that the overall quality of household appliances has improved within the past decade?

    Very few American manufacturers can afford to do business within the USA since the cost of operations is sky high w/unions and costly over-regulation by government. This is a huge triumph for American socialists. Their dream has come true: our goods, including these awful, heavily plastic packaged bulbs – are now manufactured in their ideal society: The People’s Republic of China. What a paradox – a completely unregulated entity – by any means whatsoever – brings, via slave labor, to the hideously over-regulated ‘free’ world a product only a socialist could love – a lousy, ugly, energy hogging, inefficient light bulb – but hey, no problem, “it’s good for the environment”.

    Extreme environmentalists love this phrase, ‘good for the environment’ above reason, logic and freedom. Where’s Pavlov when we need him?

  45. Denise says

    Daisy,

    Since we’re going to be stuck with more inefficient products, we can tell the electric companies to shove off with their high prices too. I’m looking into solar power – It’s expensive as heck at the moment, but in the long run, I think going off grid is going to be the only way any of us will be able to survive getting shafted anymore than we already are. I saw an interesting home makeover a few weeks ago – the roof and walls of an up-stair addition was complete glass — not a bad idea, considering that there aren’t many trees near my house, and I could install a solar-heated water supply to boot.

    // How can I predict such dire effects, a rabid socialist-environmentalist may squawk? For the exact same reasons I predicted normal household appliance quality would become degraded once US government regulations overtook efficient production/competition/freedom in order to appease socialistic goals. Anyone out there think that the overall quality of household appliances has improved within the past decade? //

    Household appliances started going downhill when the corporations realized that supply couldn’t meet demand. People who like junk continue to buy junk, creating a need for even more junk to be mass produced. Those of us who would pay more for a product that won’t breakdown so fast are stuck with – junk! There’s a new house phone every 2-3 years, coffee makers that die after a year, two new irons in the past 4 years, and the wiring on my clothes dryer caught fire after 6 years. Thanks to the placement of the outlet, I was able to save my house, but spent the night airing the smoke out. We get what we pay for, no?

    But I digress. If the rabid environmentalists would actually stop and think things through, they would realize that saving the environment includes a need for lights that do not put off harmful emissions.

    Pavlov is trying to figure out whose bell needs to be wrung so that salivation can begin. ;)

  46. Ian says

    Maybe the government wouldn’t be saying anything about your light bulbs if those of you who love your incandescents so much would just turn off the lights when you leave a room. I replaced all my incandescents with CFL’s a few months ago with QUALITY CFL’s from Costco (in paper packaging, not plastic) and have not noticed a difference in the quality of light, other than it takes 1 minute for them to warm up and achieve full lighting capacity, so the bad quality of light some of you talk about does not make sense to me – I haven’t seen your bulbs, though. Why are people concerned and looking for a solution like CFL’s? Because the country is requiring more power. Where is this going to come from? Coal and Nuclear. Do you really want to breathe in those fumes from the power plants and bask in a nuclear glow from the radioactive waste because we all need more energy? Maybe you are a proponent of just burying nuclear waste (I don’t know what you would do about the carbon emissions, though). Great! Just leave the problems for you children and grandchildren because you don’t want to save energy. You may not want to give up your power-sucking light bulbs, but I have read no solutions from those of you who plan to stockpile light bulbs.

  47. Daisy says

    “Maybe the government wouldn’t be saying anything about your light bulbs if those of you who love your incandescents so much would just turn off the lights when you leave a room.”

    Ian, you seem to confuse the ‘government’ (made up of duly elected representatives of the people of the Republic of the USA) with parents and you then confuse citizens of our Republic w/children of those parents.

    You also appear to believe you possess magical powers that inform you as to whether or not people who prefer good light (incandescent) and freedom turn their lights off frequently enough to suit the dictates of the religion of environmentalism.

    Here’s a Big Secret: There is ENOUGH energy to go around. If we need to come up with new ways and means to meet energy needs, we will.

    Governmental takeovers of free will do not help that process – they hamper it. If you like ugly, expensive, mercury laden lights — go ahead and buy them. Buy a million of them. I don’t care. In fact, you can rip out the electric and heating systems in your house, for all I care – in fact – go all the way and blow up your house too. Go live in a mud hut with firelight and spears. Be my guest. Just don’t put the ugly lights into publicly shared space and if you blow up your car or house, do so in a place where you won’t harm another person/property.

    I would appreciate the same freedom of choice. That’s all.

    My descendants will, of course, inherit some of the work left incomplete by me. So what? That’s nothing new. If I can help preserve freedom – then at the very least they’ll have a good chance to work out their own lives with the kind of integrity made possible only by living with freedom. In my opinion, you ought to learn to value freedom more and blind obedience to the fear-mongering environmentalist movement less.

  48. sibyl says

    I would appreciate the same freedom of choice as well. We do use the new bulbs in most places in our home as we want to do our part to help out. We also recycle, and do other things. But there are those who are stuggling. Tell me how they are to afford these expensive bulbs? They are not CHEAP. Especially if you have 4 ceiling fans in your home with 3 bulbs in each of them on top of all the other lights thruout your house. Not one light is on in my home as I type this. I dont have to look at the keyboard to type.

    Its great to think of taking care of this planet, and to leave SOMETHING behind for our kids but ONE thing I want left behind for them is a government that is not taking over every single aspect of their lives. shrugs

  49. Bob says

    What will happen to all of my 3-way lamps?

    Those morons never think about unintended consequences:-(

  50. Alex says

    What about those of us who use antique fixtures? A gas-lamp converted to electric w/original carbon (not Tungsten) filament bulbs looks absolutely stunning. Throw a CFL of any type in there and it’s just not the same. That is, if any CFL would actually fit in there (they don’t).

    Similarly, I use PAR36 halogen/xenon gas bulbs heavily throughout the house. Watt-per-watt, they compare very favorably with CFLs in terms of light output, but have a far more pleasing light to them. A use a 1/4 Minusgreen colour filter on them and the results are drop-dead gorgeous.

    I also use LED & CFL lighting in my home as well. My electric bills run 1/4 to 1/6th of what my neighbors do, so why should I be forced to throw out an entire lighting fixture? More landfill material — that’s real environmentally friendly there.

  51. says

    I don’t think CFL can be considered expensive, they save you money. They cost $1.00 and they save around $40 over their 3-5 year lifetime, at least the one’s I use. I’ve had the same $1.00 bulb outside in all Chicago’s seasons for 2 years running from 8PM to 5AM approximately, every day. If you are only getting 1 year out of the bulbs, I suspect there may be something wrong with the electric in your house, the bulbs are defective, or they are left on 24 hours / day.

    The bulbs truly do last 10 X’s longer, which means the energy savings over the bulbs lifetime reduces mercury output from coal power plants by greater than the amount of mercury contained in 1 bulb and the bulb can be recycled. And if it breaks don’t freak out, the mercury content is like nothing, just use a dustpan, then a wet rag, and you’re good, and how often do you break light bulbs?

  52. Anonymous says

    //The bulbs truly do last 10 X’s longer

    How long to incandescent bulbs actually last?

    My MEASUREMENTS for CLF life show an average life of about 1.5 years, far less than the advertised 5-10 year lifespan.

    If you don’t have numbers for incandescents and flourescents, seems to me it’s hard to make a comparison.

    WRT the issue of mercury and the claim that more mercury is emitted by burning the coal to power an incandescent during it’s life than is in a CFL, I just read in an insert in my PG&E billing that only 2% of California’s power comes from coal, which, in CA at least should be the final nail in the coffin in which that claim is buried.

  53. Dave says

    //And if it breaks don’t freak out, the mercury content is like nothing, just use a dustpan, then a wet rag, and you’re good, and how often do you break light bulbs?

    Oh really? Is that why the EPA has a page long instruction sheet for clean up of broken CFLs?
    http://www.epa.gov/mercury/spills/index.htm#fluorescent

    And here’s an excerpt from the actual study conducted on the CFLs (link after):
    “Mercury concentration in the study room air often exceeds the Maine Ambient Air
    Guideline (MAAG) of 300 nanograms per cubic meter (ng/m3) for some period of
    time, with short excursions over 25,000 ng/m3, sometimes over 50,000 ng/m3, and
    possibly over 100,000 ng/m3 from the breakage of a single compact fluorescent
    lamp. ”
    http://www.maine.gov/dep/rwm/homeowner/cflreport.htm

    33,200% OVER the guideline limit from ONE bulb?!!?!? No, that’s not a typo.

    And how often do I break light bulbs? With the possibility of Mecury at the levels indicated by the study, I think just 1 would be more than I would be willing to be exposed to.

    So please Jason, continue using CFLs and next time you break one, do us all a favor and breath deeply.

  54. says

    //Maybe the government wouldn’t be saying anything about your light bulbs if those of you who love your incandescents so much would just turn off the lights when you leave a room.//

    Ian,
    I fail to see your reasoning that those who prefer to use incandescent bulbs don’t turn off the lights when they leave the room. That’s like saying if you use CFL’s, you don’t have to. My windows face east/west, so I do not use any lights during the day. I’ll use my incandescents and turn off the lights when I leave the room if you’ll leave your CFLs burning 24/7 – at the end of the month, we’ll see who has the lower elec. bill.

  55. Michelle says

    I have an 8 year old daughter with a rare life threatening autoimmune disease who cannot be under UV rays. Flourescent bulbs emmit UV rays (albiet in small amounts) and cause skin changes to occur in my daughter. Because of the isidious nature of my daughter’s disease, we do not fully know the extent of the damage to my daughter from flourescent lighting. We too are stockpiling bulbs but it is doubtful that we’ll be able to collect enough for her lifetime.

    And we too are concerned about the mercury inside these bulbs — especially since we are already dealing with an autoimmune issue.

    I wrote my congressman today to find out if there are any provisions for those persons with medical conditions — such as my daughter’s and possibly those with Lupus and some cancer patients.

    Perhaps if you object to the replacement of the incandescent bulbs with flourescent bulbs, you might consider doing the same.

    Has anyone else ever heard of a similar situation as ours — meaning a medical condition in which flourescent lights might be harmful to a person’s health?

  56. Carrie says

    I am so sick of my stupid government making One Size Fits All decisions, I could just spit. Flourescent bulbs trigger migraines for me. Am I supposed to live in the freaking dark? What of epileptics who are triggered by the flickering? Why are they witholding that flourescent bulbs can cause liver, brain and kidney damage if broken? They contain mercury. You have to evacuate the whole da*ned room when they break, they are that dangerous. Are these people crazy? Every time my government comes up with a “solution” they create more problems and expense for people. How are poor folks going to buy these outrageously expensive light bulbs? You need a bunch of them to actually light a room as well as incandescents do.

    Should I toss out my chandelier that has been in my family for a hundred years? How am I going to replace those bulbs? What about dimmer switches? Flourescents don’t work with them.

    Another decision from “leaders” who don’t think anything out first.

  57. Daisy says

    Ronald Reagan famously declared that the scariest sentence in the English language is, “Hi, I’m the Federal government and I’m here to help.”

    I agree with Reagan’s declaration.

  58. says

    Ever notice it’s the “little people” that the government “helps”? Thank God my house sits the way it does. I won’t need the lights except at night on my way to the bathroom.

  59. Lynn says

    I would rather shoot myself than fill my home with fluorescent lighting. I work in a fluorescent-filled work environment all day and can’t wait to get home to the comfortable, warm, inviting lights of my little lamps in my little apartment. Fluoroescent lights give me headaches! Bad ones! I am stock piling incandescents as of this year… let’s see, I’m 26 now, so on an average of replacing about four to five light bulbs per year, if I live to be 80, then that means I have to stockup about 270 bulbs, at roughly 3.00 to 4.00 apiece… about a thousand dollars? That’s a little much for me to spend on bulbs at this low-earning age. However, that price is probably a much better deal than what I’d have to spend on Excedrin Migraine for the rest of my life due to filling my house with a lovely fluorescent glow. I don’t care how much technology has ‘warmed up’ fluorescent lights for the home… I can still tell the difference. I’m an artist. I will ALWAYS be able to tell the difference. Sure, these energy saving bulbs might be great for attic-cellar-driveway areas… but for a reading lamp next to couch, or next to the BED?? REALLY ROMANTIC. NOTHIN’ SAYS LOVIN’ LIKE SOME SOFT FLUORESCENT MOOD LIGHTING. WHAT A GOOD IDEA. That’ll really make my butt look great. By the way…The government is telling me what bulbs I can use in my own home?? A bit invasive, don’t you think? Wasn’t the whole point of breaking off and starting our own country just a few centuries ago to stop the government from doing this exact type of thing? Next they’ll be telling us what kind of socks to wear and what time to get up in the morning, and what’s illegal to have for breakfast.

  60. Carl says

    I like how Alan pointed out you can save $30/month on your electricity bill, I think that is a little high considering my average electricity bill is only $25/mo. (I typically only use 45-55kWh). And most of the that bill is the delivery charge ($15.00). So I doubt everyone is going to see the kind of savings he’s boasting.

    Second, you shrug off the heat like it’s not a big deal. But it is a big deal! Especially in the northern USA where we have cold-dark winters.

    When I get home from work and turn up my heater and my lights on… guess what, if I have 3x100Watt bulbs going, my 1000Watt heater kicks on 30% less of the time. Why? Because my 100Watt bulbs are supplying heat to the room. If I had 3x25Watt CFLs pumping out the equivalent lumens, guess, what my heater would be supplying 100% of the heat energy. So lets do some fast math:

    Incandecent:
    3x100Watt + 0.7*1000Watt = 1000Watts
    Compact Flourecent:
    3x25Watts + 1.0*1000Watts = 1075Watts

    I dont exactly see the benefit of CFLs (at least not in the winter time). Nore do I recommend using light-bulbs as the only heat-source. What I am saying, is that their effects should not be neglected.

    Also, in the office – yesterday – I walked down the hallway and saw everyone’s office with their lights on (granted they were CFLs). But it was also a bright and sunny day. I was the only person in the entire hallway who had his lights off. Does this beg the question “If things become more efficient, will we abuse it more?” Much like the argument people have with hybrid cars… “If you get better MPG, will you drive more?” And this obviously leads to the question of “Are we saving anything?” My guess is no. Could it be possible that we need to increase the cost of things so people learn “I shouldnt leave my lights on, because it’s costing me money, and costing ‘us’ the environment” if people associate CFLs with being “Good” for the environment, I’d be willing to guess people will leave things on be less dilligent in remembering to turn things off because they are using less energy…

    Plus, the government recommends you replace any lightbulb with a CFL if the lightbulb is to be on for more than 15 minutes. Why 15mins? Like I mentioned before – Activation energy! The spike to “excite” the mercury vapor inside the phosphor tube actually draws a large quantity of ‘juice’. So if you put them in your closet, bathroom, or other places where you’re turning lights on/off regularly… you arent saving anything. And in some cases you may be using MORE than your standard incandecent.

    As for the real savings, why not use the sunlight? During the day I never turn on any lights (CFL or incandecent) It’s foolish, wasteful and unnecessary. And if that is your line of tought, when the sun goes down, so does the temperature. So why not turn on those heat-emitting incandecents?

    But like I said, if you live in a warm place… sure go ahead throw in some CFL’s you’ll save not only on your lighting-electricity, but you’ll be able to cut back on your Air-Conditioning bill as well. Double-whammy, knock yourselves out. But for my life in the blistering cold, I’ll hang on to my lightbults for as long as I can.

    As for freedom of choice, I’m definitely against the government making decissions for me. I know I am educated enough to understand what is good and what is bad. If I wanted other people to make decissions for me, I should have been born a robot.

    I dont know where I am going with this post. Hopefully everyone made it through okay.

  61. Ellen says

    I am extremely alarmed about this. I’ve been treated for mercury poisoning and have always avoided fluorescent bulbs in my home. It’s one thing for any of us to stockpile incandescent bulbs, but isn’t there something else we can be doing? Shouldn’t we be contacting environmental groups, senators and congressmen? I hope some of the articulate people who posted their comments here will also take some sort of broader action.

  62. says

    General public is still mis-informed.

    EVEN THOUGH CFLs contain a tiny amount of mercury (just like all the fluorescent tubes in office buildings and stores everywhere also do), CFLs use SO little energy that they reduce the mercury emissions from power plants by 2/3rds compared with INCANDESCENT bulbs, because CFLs don’t require the power plants to generate as much power. CFLs use 75-80% less energy than regular bulbs and they last so much longer, that they win on the energy front AND the mercury front even after considering the tiny amount of mercury needed to run them . THAT IS WHY ENERGY STAR AND THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY SUPPORT USING THEM!! There is no ignorance in their recommendation, but they realize people will not easily understand that you need to use a little mercury to prevent a lot.

  63. Anonymous says

    //EVEN THOUGH CFLs contain a tiny amount of mercury (just like all the fluorescent tubes in office buildings and stores everywhere also do), CFLs use SO little energy that they reduce the mercury emissions from power plants by 2/3rds compared with INCANDESCENT//

    Marty, for California’s electricity , only 2% comes from coal unless PG&E is lying to me. Explain the emissions reductions here.

    //THAT IS WHY ENERGY STAR AND THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY SUPPORT USING THEM!!//

    California reports that 6 million CFLs have been sold (in radio and TV commercials), but there is no word of reduced power requirements. In fact, we’ve had rolling blackouts. I don’t see any real evidence that CFLs reduce power generation needs.

    CFLs obviously don’t meet everyone’s needs for many reasons, from causing migraines to sensitivity to UV (which is what causes the phosphors to glow). They can’t be used in ovens or microwave ovens, they probably won’t work in many refrigerators or freezers, or outside in an Ohio winter. There are many places where that will not work, or should not be used. They should not be used in unventilated fixtures for example, which describes virtually all existing fixtures. Using one in an unventilated fixture can result in a fire. Read the warnings that come with CFLs.

    One size does not fit all. Fluorescents have their advantages and disadvantages. No evangelism on you part is gonna effect the reality of this.

    FYI, for mercury calculations (rather than assertions) see above.

  64. Candy says

    So what is the government providing for our refrigerators, ovens, and other places where these flourescents will not work?

    TO ALAN: I’m old. My eyes are not so good anymore. I cannot see well using these dim flourscent bulbs. Yes, that makes me mad and I am complaining. Why wouldn’t I? You will get old someday, too, Alan, and won’t be able to see like you do now. Hope you remember me when that happens! And it will!

  65. WOOLEX says

    Replacing incandescent with CFL’s for the sake of the environment is outrageous. Yet another political attempt to save face in awake of environmental degradation.

    Generating light artificially impacts the environment regardless of what light bulb is used. CFL’s have pros and cons just like an incandescent. People should be able to chose what light best suit’s the application. To determine this consumers need to know where their power is coming from [coal, nuclear, hydro etc] the climate they live, and how and where the bulb is being manufactured.

    I would love to find more information on exactly how much energy is used to manufacture a CFL, INCLUDING the extraction and transportation of the various mineral recourses that comprise a CFL. Unfortunately to date all I can find is political opinions [worthless] and scientific evaluations that only cover half the variables.

    Above all banning incandescent lights is simply a piss weak attempt to “save the planet”. Domestic lighting in particular uses a very small percentage of the gross power generated [particularly on a global basis] .
    The majority of energy goes towards fueling economies with useful and useless shit for people to consume and of course transportation.

    Ultimately to have a significant impact on energy consumption government would have to stop the very engine that drives the economy, consumption of goods. I suppose it will make some misguided people feel warm and fuzzy when they are screwing CFL’s into their light sockets, but the reality is it wont solve a thing.

  66. Daisy says

    Woolex, you observed: “Ultimately to have a significant impact on energy consumption government would have to stop the very engine that drives the economy, consumption of goods. ”

    That’s precisely the agenda of those using the ‘environmental movement’ as a cover for their real goal: shut down free trade and have a fully Socialist governing force interfering in every aspect of our lives. So what if we have to wait in lines for scarce resources – like toilet paper? Toilet paper and water wasting toilets are “bad” for “the environment” and therefore we need to get rid of them.

    Think I’m kidding? NYC Mayor Bloomberg has gone after cigarette smokers, transfat users (immediate $1000 fine if so much of a stick of margarine is discovered by highly tax paid inspectors/regulators in any commercial food prep. ‘environment’ in NYC) and now he’s going after salt. That’s right. Citizens of the formerly free USA will now have Saint Bloomberg dictating their salt usage. For their own good. And fines will be imposed on food producers for not toeing the salt line. This does not only affect NYC – Bloomberg’s successful tax and spend schemes (disguised under the ‘environmental health’ umbrella) are copied far and wide across the USA.

    One wonders exactly what it will take for the supremely sanctimonious to begin to choke on all their damned warm fuzziness? Maybe sitting in a harshly green glaring room eating their saltless, fat free but green dinner of roots and then taking a postprandial hike in the cold but clean rain to the toilet paperless green bamboo outhouse located ‘in the environment’ a few times too many will convince them to take up smoking lots of tobacco.

    One can only hope that perhaps then, while otherwise preoccupied, they’ll get the hell off the rest of our backs.

  67. Keith Grove says

    Wow, some people do get upset, Jane Doe believes that the “bleep” fascist state is forcing her to give up her holy incandescent bulbs, which are obviously gifts from god.
    Then there is Daisy who believes that a fully Socialist governing force is behind these vicious policies. I am very worried that I did not know about any of this.
    I have good news for Jane Doe and Daisy, you can defeat these evil powers by simply going back to using candles or a naked gas flame just like we used for milenia until Joseph Swann invented the incandescent electric light bulb. No it wasn’t Edison it was Swann, Edison bought the patent from Swann then manipulated everyone into thinking he invented it. You’ve got to watch those crafty capitalists.
    Anyway Jane and Daisy, do you like my suggestion? and when your house catches fire (candles and gas flames tend to be rather dangerous that’s why the fascist/socialist law makers pester you with lots of warnings) you can have the satisfaction of telling those fascist/socialist quasi governmental fireman busybodies to get off your property so that you can extinguish the fire yourself with a bucket of water.
    If they won’t go you can use your gun to shoot them, thank heavens for the 2nd amendment and the NRA.
    I will leave you with this thought. People who constantly moan about there RIGHTS being violated ignore the fact that RIGHTS only work when we recognize that we have RESPONSIBILITIES. Without RESPONSIBILITIES we have NO RIGHTS. Unfortunately many people pay lip service to their RESPONSIBILITIES thus forcing those of us who take them seriously to create RULES AND LAWS. So if you are one of the former type then you are the root cause of the LAWS you so much despise.

  68. Daisy says

    Keith, do keep in mind that the Fascists were Socialists. Fascism was the ultimate leftist movement with every single iota of responsibility lifted out of the domain of the individual and placed into the governmental domain. Keep in mind too, that all the evils perpetrated by the Fascists were for ‘the good of the people’.

    You claim, “Unfortunately many people pay lip service to their RESPONSIBILITIES thus forcing those of us who take them seriously to create RULES AND LAWS. So if you are one of the former type then you are the root cause of the LAWS you so much despise.”

    Uh huh. I’m quite sure the SS justified all kinds of violations against human freedom and dignity w/the same distorted thinking. You go ahead and follow the orders dictated by the state religion of environmentalism. But at no time expect me to follow those same orders; I prefer freedom. And I will fight with my dying breath to protect freedom.

  69. Keith Grove says

    Daisy, thanks for the response. Unfortunately your reasoning is so far out of the realm of normalcy that you make yourself look like a Libertarian.
    It seems that you would regard a law such as, we should all drive on the right as an assault on your liberty. If I lived next to you and I wanted to start a business that was very noisy and produced lots of pollution I should be able to. I should not have to abide by the zoning laws created by the Fascist/Socialist local government. I should be able to run a bordello or sell drugs right next to a church or a school. Heaven forbid that my butchers shop or restaurant should be subject to inspection by this same local or state authority looking for tainted food products or unhygienic practices. Oh, I have just invented a drug which will cure your constipation, why should the FDA stick their nose in just because they think this drug will kill people.
    You seem to be in favor of Anarchy not Freedom, if you want complete freedom to do as you please then I suggest you go and live in Somalia. Civilization and modern society HAS to have reasonable and sensible laws, what constitutes “reasonable” good question. That is what democracy is all about, remember what Winston Churchill said “democracy is absolutely the worst form of government, except for all the others”. When you jump to an extreme such as citing the Nazi SS and their view of “reasonable” you lose all credibility and show yourself up as some one who is SO unreasonable that normal intelligent discourse is impossible.
    I suppose that you regard the imposition of anti-pollution rules on Cars as a violation of your freedom, you probably want to continue using leaded gas. The evidence that lead can cause severe developmental problems in young children is overwhelming but because it violates your view of what constitutes freedom you would fight to remove those SENSIBLE laws. The phasing out of incandescent bulbs, while not a danger to your health, is sensible as it can lead to more efficient and cheaper forms of illumination. The problem with your views are this, anyone not agreeing with you would be seen as another member of this socialist/fascist ruling class seeking to oppress you. You would then more than likely take up arms against me. I can assure you that I would also take up arms and fight and defeat you. Where does that get us?
    The democracies we now live under in the western world are not perfect, far from it, but they are NOT NAZI GERMANY, THE SOVIET UNION, RED CHINA or FASCIST ITALY or SOMALIA and never will be. Compare the freedoms we enjoy, even with the annoyances of silly and inconvenient laws, with Somalia.
    You cannot be against all environmental laws surely, you must enjoy clean air, clean water, removal of hazardous waste etc. etc.
    Which of these laws don’t you like? in Somalia you are free to drink contaminated water, walk down streets stinking with human waste, eat food and use drugs that have never been interfered with by government inspectors.
    Personally I prefer not to.

  70. Daisy says

    And I prefer not to have ugly, inefficient, costly light bulbs imposed on me in the name of the State Religion of Environmentalism.

    The religious dogma of extreme environmentalism is not meant to reasonably protect the environment we share; the dogma is intended to destroy normal, healthy capitalistic ventures in favor of governmental regulations on every single aspect of our lives.

    Where you, not unlike the SS, prefer Big Government regulating everything single thing you do (no, actually, make that everything I do) for “my own good”, I prefer free market choice. If someone invents a light bulb (or anything else) that is truly superior to what’s sold in the marketplace, more power to them. The market will dictate what gets bought and sold. If more people want to buy cost ineffective ugly bulbs that cast a harsh ugly light, fine. And if you want to buy the Brooklyn Bridge, that’s also fine with me. What’s not fine is eliminating my choice to buy a perfectly safe and fine – in fact, in all ways – superior product.

    Although there are reasonable concerns about the harmful effects of CFL’s on people w/certain neurological disorders, not to mention the uglification of public space (which I now have to endure), I would still not want to stop the free market from operating freely. What I do object to, and object to vehemently, is my choice having been annihilated by a bunch of esthetically incompetent and seriously ill informed do gooders. These same do gooders have accomplished what light bulb manufacturers have attempted to dump on the public since the early 60′s (and that the public heretofore has wisely refused) : cheaply manufactured, high cost ugly fluorescent lighting. Worse, you’ve made this compulsory and eliminated choice. The winner? General Electric and Sylvania. The losers? The now incrementally nationalized GE, Sylvania and the American consumer.

    If the damned CFL is so almighty wonderful, then let the public decide. If they were so terrific, the demand would go up, prices for the CFLs would go down and the price of the incandescent would rise. I’d be glad to pay the higher price for the less desirable bulb that I want but will not be able to buy. What I’m not glad to do is have my freedom interfered w/ by a bunch of indoctrinated dummies who would destroy freedom all for the sake of their latest guilt riddled status symbol.

    You confuse reasonable governmental regulations w/National Socialism, which is a catastrophic error. The problem w/Capitalism is the occasional Capitalist. The problem w/Socialism is Socialism; it’s only guarantee is misery. Stick w/your plan for governmental interference in all manner of things that are none of the government’s business, and you will succeed in making the whole world into Somalia. When you and yours do that, you will have fulfilled the vision of the extreme environmental movement. BTW, I’m not a Libertarian; I’m a Conservative.

  71. Anonymous says

    CFLs are as ugly as stale piss and put out a light that’s about as ugly. They cost too much. They’re dangerous if they break and they don’t last nearly as long as advertised. I’ve only used them in fixtures where you can’t see the bulb and on an outside light – in neither application have they lasted appreciably longer than incandescent bulbs.

  72. Keith Grove says

    Dear Anonymous, As we do not have any stale piss around our house it is difficult to make a direct comparison between and CFLs. However could it be that you are mistaken about the stale piss could it be that you were staring at a mirror when you made the comparison.
    Now to Daisy’s latest remarks. I did not call you a Libertarian I said that your own remarks made you look like a Libertarian, by saying that you are a conservative you merely reinforce this view.
    I can never understand anyone who says “I am a conservative” or “I am a liberal”. They are of course deluding themselves, no one (except George Bush) can spend their entire lives believing absolutely in the credo of conservatism or liberalism. You would be far more correct saying “I am conservative in my views on Defence, law and order, welfare etc but I do not hold to the conservative views on Euthenasia, Third World Aid, Birth Control etc”. The same would be true for liberals also. I myself tend toward conservative views on Defence, Law and Order, Immigration etc but I hold liberal views on Health Care, Welfare, Gay marriage etc. So am I a conservative or a liberal, by the way in spite of my views on Gay Marriage I am not gay. Nor am I a socialist or a National Socialist, what a childish remark you made to say “You confuse reasonable governmental regulations w/National Socialism”. What a pompous arrogant and ignorant remark, it is YOU who confuses ” reasonable governmental regulations w/National Socialism”. It is clear that you as with the majority of people have NO IDEA what you talking about when you try to demean some one by throwing the labels “Nationa Socialism” and “Socialism” and “Comminism” around.
    Capitalism is in fact a good system when it is run by people of integrity and honesty. But when the system is run by people with unfettered greed who are concerned only with their own welfare and with utter contempt for the good of others then we have the situation that we find ouselves in now. The thieves have stolen the goods and our money and their alright Jack. The Madoffs of this world have run riot. WHY? because the people who were supposed to be watching were asleep at the whell. I imagine that you were part of “we don’t need government interference or rules or regulation, let the market regulate itself” crowd. Well the market sure as hell has taken care of itself leaving millions of victims in its wake. You can rest assured that during the conservative reign government interference was reduced to almost nothing. This will be very comforting to you as the baliffs throw out all your belongings from your fore-closed house and the repo man tows away your repossessed car and you join the line for food stamps. Sorry you will probably not want food stamps, just another of those liberal socialist give aways that you object to. Well see if Citi Bank or Morgan Stanley or GE or Microsoft will give you any food or pay for your health care or your shelter. I think not.
    If CFLs will reduce our dependance on foreign then they are good for us, so stop whining and get over it.

  73. Daisy says

    Keith G.,

    You reveal yourself as an ill-bred irrationalist when you decry name calling while simultaneously calling Anonymous “stale piss” and then calling me names you deem political slurs all while indulging in a Leftist orgy of fantastical dire predictions concerning my personal fate. Hate to burst your envy bubble, but I’m rich and I’m staying that way. I will also continue to use my stockpiled incandescent bulbs for many long years to come.

    It’s one thing to be determinedly ignorant, it’s quite another to be ill bred. Although, for truth’s sake, it must be admitted there is confluence between those conditions – producing annoying, albeit predictable and consistent results: Envy riddled Leftists.

    You sir, are both ignorant and ill bred. Do not expect to engage in any further discourse with me.

  74. Keith Grove says

    It’s always the same when confronted by difficult questions the answers to which reveal your lack of intellect let alone lack of foresight, reasoning or intelligence. You just follow the predictable route followed by all brain dead conservatives, you just change the subject.
    Once again you reveal your yahoo mentality, “lets call him a leftist”, you haven’t the vaguest idea what you are talking about do you. You probably heard some other conservative use the word, it sounded good so you decided to use it.
    You haven’t answered one single question that I have asked have you. Your are scared to death when confronted by concepts that you clearly have never contemplated. So you revert to blather “I’m a conservative” “I believe in freedom”, “government is useless”, “nobody tells me what to do I’m an American”, “all problems are the fault of commies, socialists and gays” etc. etc. etc.
    You have never had an original thought in your life have you. Oh! I am so impressed that you are rich, I do hope that your investment councilors haven’t put your money into one of Bernie Maddof’s funds. A lot of formerly smart rich people did trust him and they are no longer rich or smart. I am also rich and I know where my money is.
    Anyway, just go back and try to answer my questions and then you will see just how foolish you are. On reflection though I think you’re a lost cause

  75. Keith Grove says

    Oh! I almost forgot, you have managed to prove that you are a true conservative. “I will also continue to use my stockpiled incandescent bulbs for many long years to come”.
    Intransigence, bone headed determination, total refusal to see the light in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. A true conservative, George Bush would be proud.
    Congrats.

  76. Shiben says

    Might I ask how we will all be using CFs in most design applications? I work in theater and currently all of our lighting is done with Incandescent lamps, usually around 500-1000 watts each. LEDs are slowly coming into prominence, but the question remains, for high intensity, dimmable light, incandescents are the only way to go. Will we in the theatre (and also most other installations that require dimming) have to ditch all our lighting due to this silly energy act?

  77. Tallis says

    This sounds like a great idea for the enviroment and the future I am all for it from my enviromental perspective!!! That said…

    SHIT! ARE YOU SERIOUS!? I am screwed. I am a Migraine sufferer. I get from 7 to 20 Migraines a month. One my the main triggers for my Migraines are… you guessed it… these lovely fluorescent lights. They flicker, they are bright, they hurt. I can’t have them in my house, especaily during a Migraine Attack. I have even had them traded out in my office so I can make it through the work day. I avoid these lights as if they were a sickness.

  78. Daisy says

    Tallis,

    It’s not at all certain that these lights are environmentally sound and it very well could be a serious scam. Light bulb manufacturers have, for many years (in fact, since the 60′s), been trying to pawn off these low grade lights on the public – with little to no success because they produce ugly, harmful light. Now, aided and abetted by gulit riddled ‘environmentalists’, GE, Sylvania etc. are jumping for joy at having the govt. do what they’ve failed to do: Sell us cheap to manf. expensively priced light bulbs that shed horrific quality light .. now mandated by LAW! Made in China quality, over packaged, highly expensive, sickening – crap – it’s an outrageous bashing of freedom. I’m stockpiling.

  79. Keith says

    Tallis, I am truly sorry about your migraines my father suffered with them as well and I know how painful and truly debilitating they are. However I am confused by your statement that flourescent flicker causes a problem, are you refering to the the flicker when a light goes on and off as the old flourescents used to do when they started up. Or are you refering to the 60 hertz flicker caused by the AC power. Ordinary incandescents also flicker at 60 Hertz and in my experience the flourescent flicker is less noticeable than indandescent flicker. As to brightness there are ways to shade or filter the light. I am seeing more and more flourescent and LED lights appear on the market. I am sure we will see an improvement in quality and function as time goes by, the savings in energy consumption will be substantial and this will benefit us all.
    I am sure that when gas light replaced candles and electricity replaced gas there were many people who felt that we were going the wrong way but I am dead certain no one would now want to go back to candles or gas.

  80. Keith says

    Daisy, stockpile away your FREE to horde as many incandescents as you want. But your assertion that banning the sale of incandescents is “bashing freedom” is absurd and you know it. I am sure that there are many local ordinances where you live that could be seen as “bashing freedom” such as:
    Requiring a fence around a swimming pool to prevent children from falling in.
    Banning the parking of commercial vehicles on your property.
    Requiring smoke detectors throughout your house.
    Banning the burning of refuse on your property.
    Banning the manufacture and use of paint containing lead.
    and the list goes on and on.
    Most reasonable do not see these regulations as “bashing freedom” but as reasonable and necessary precaution that benefir us all.
    I have said it before and I will say it again, if you want to be free of government regulation and all those pesky no good useless busybodies who enforce these regulations then go live in Somalia. In Somalia you are “free” to do as you please, you can probably buy incandescents and even leaded paint to your hearts content.
    So shut up and stop continuously moaning and complaining.

  81. Anonymous 2 (the sequel) says

    –If CFLs will reduce our dependance on foreign then they are good for us, so stop whining and get over it.

    I assume you mean foreign oil here. And CFL’s won’t do anything at all to our demand for oil. At best they will reduce our demand for electricity, but they will not offset the gains in demand due to massive legal and illegal immigration.

    And you’ll just never guess where all the CFL’s sold in the US and made. They are another foreign-made good, so at best you are trading on foreign dependency for another. I say at best because CFL’s in practice have nothing to do with our oil consumption, regardless of the source of the oil.

    And these being the case your argument fails, they are not good for us in the sense you claim. They are another dependency and they are bad for us as they cause more money to hemorrhage out of the local economies.

    FYI, different anonymous.

  82. Anonymous 2 (patent pending) says

    –Where do I find a CFL bulb to replace my 3-way bulbs? Is there such an animal?

    They do make these beasts, they are a bit larger than regular bulbs and may not fit in every lamp.

    I got one from Home Depot for $10. The claimed a 9 year life but the kids destroyed the lamp and the bulb after less than a year. Luckily the CFL was not broken. I bought a bright CFL for the living room as I doubt I’ll need the lower settings anyway.

    Initially it took a while to warm up, I suspect the mercury needed to evaporate, and after that it did flicker noticeably when warming up. These CFLs don’t work as well as incandescent bulbs or normal CFLs in my experience.

  83. Anonymous says

    Rich,
    You said “What is the impact of one bulb? Small unless you break it.”
    And that is one of the big probles with CFLs. If you break a CFLs you have to get a Hazardous Clean-Up Team to clean up the mess. That is going to cost thousands of dollars and you could get Mercury posisoning. CFLs sound like great light bulbs to have in your house. Well we will not have to worry that Hazardous Clean-Up teams will loses business, I might even switch my job to working for a Hazardous Clean-Up Company.

  84. Ken says

    So to stave off junk science (“man made global warming”), we are forcing people to buy bulbs filled with mercury, that will poison our landfills and ground water, that after a few weeks use get dimmer and dimmer and take longer to warm up, that don’t fit most light fixtures (my house is filled with wall sconces, it was built in 1925, and I’m not putting in those ugly ballast-based candelabra bulbs), and that NEVER last as long as advertised. Half of the CFLs I’ve used have burned out in less than a year, not the “eight years” advertised.
    Once again, government creates more problems with its solutions than it solves.

  85. Daisy says

    Ken, You said it! Every word correct – especially your summation: “Once again, government creates more problems with its solutions than it solves.” Reagan brilliantly said: “The scariest words in the English language are, “Hi, I’m the American government and I’m here to help”.

    The light bulb manufacturers, in collusion w/Bush’s Big Government, have produced a major scam by dumping cheapo to manufacture (but expensive to buy), ugly in every way imaginable, crappy quality , made in China, toxic light bulbs courtesy of the guilty to the point of madness Greenies. I’m not guilty and I recognize snake oil when I see it; I’m stockpiling.

    Note to Greenies: Go ahead and flagellate yourselves, but do not expect sensible people to participate. 2012 will soon be here — and so will a new administration — elected by the majority of American citizens who still love freedom.

  86. Keith says

    You may not be aware of the fact that a new administration has already been elected by a majority of Americans who love freedom, Barack Obama is doing a great job trying to fix the ocean of shit that George Bush left behind. If you think Sarah and her brain dead right wing zealot supporters will win in 2012 I would like to sell you a bridge. If you think those right wing zealots are interested in freedom then you are as gullible as all the rest of the Republicans. They want to create a theocracy where god is the president and we all grovel on our stomachs at his alter. They will eliminate ALL taxes but you have to tithe 75% of your income to Pat Robertson, whats his name Osteen, Benny Hinn and all the other odious creeps who appear on religious TV. They will fix the health care system with mass prayer sessions where you beg god to cure your disease ( no one ever gets cured its just another scam). All police forces will be done away with and you will be able to buy military surplus bazookas, howitzers, mines and machine guns at discount prices, you will get government grants to put barbed wire around your house. Isn’t freedom wonderful. If you want a preview of all this go live in Somalia and see if you like it, e-mail me if you do.
    I prefer having a president who has a brain, who listens, who is admired and who does not insult everyone with their moronic ignorance like George Bush and Sarah and all the other right wing brain dead religious republican zealots. In any case I will make a prediction that Barack Obama will be re-elected easily and will be able to appoint some Supreme Court Justices who will have the best interests of the people at heart. We do not need any more like Thomas or that pompous conceited Scalia who has read all the books but he is so dumb he couldn’t make the right decision if his life depended on it. He just thinks that making decisions that affect peoples lives is just a fun game.
    Enjoy your freedom in somalia.

  87. bob says

    you americans are morons, i live in europe, im a tattooist, i work under led and cfl lights all day.. no headache and they are almost perfect representations of the light you would encounter anywhere else, fact i use one warm and one cold so that i can constantly see what my work looks like in the real world, and for the equivalent of about 150 watts im using no more than 25 and thats to power my whole work station!

  88. Daisy says

    um bob, speaking of morons, exactly how long do you suppose you’re going to financially sustain yourself as a ‘tattooist’? The tattoo fad is fading almost as quickly as the unstable light from those overpriced, ugly and toxic CFLs. Related to moronic status, anyone who needs to refer to his workplace as differentiated from the ‘real world’ is obviously used to rejecting reality, hence your vulnerability as a dupe for the “Green Movement”. But hey, who needs reality when you can glom onto a fantasy movement? Furthermore, how long is it going to take the ultra slow English before they figure out that routinely brushing one’s teeth is a good thing? Then again, rotten teeth would appear to be the least of your problems what with “Mohammed” surpassing “John” as the most popular baby name in England. Talk about morons .. you’ve all been so busy being guilty that you plain forgot to have babies! Now that’s dumber than dirt, bob. Oh well, the Greenies will be glad .. hardly anyone will be using toilet paper anymore. That’ll teach those tree farmers a thing or two.

  89. Dave says

    um, Daisy? “Europe” ≠ “England”. And look, I’m on the same side of this argument as you, but I really don’t see any reason to criticize an individual’s chosen career. Maybe bob loves what he does. Isn’t that important? All I’m saying is comments like that really aren’t going to help sway anybody who might be on the fence.
    just my $.02 (that’s 0.000147 Euros or 0.000131 British pounds for you bob)

  90. Keith says

    Daisy, you have the gall of Dick Cheney when you call someone else a moron, I have read all your postings and I must say you are winner. As for your comment about the English and their teeth, once again you demonstrate a very slippery grasp on the real story (you are spending too much time being entertained by Rush Limbaugh). Your are correct that the English have not taken the affectation of bright shiny teeth that front for an empty brain case to heart. You see the British, thank god, have a National Health Care system. When I was 5 years old in 1947 ( so as not to tax your limited intellect too much I am now 67) I, like all children in the UK started to see a dentist that cost my parents NOTHING. I also received regular eye sight tests and hearing tests as well as visits to the doctor. All of this was covered by the National Health system that covered everyone, it did not stop if you lost your job, the phrase “pre-existing condition” did not exist. If you had to go to hospital the first question you were asked was “what is wrong” unlike our wonderful system here in the US where the question is “where is your insurance card or credit card or check book”.
    The right wing zealots will try anything to scare you and prevent any change to the US system which is overburdened, vastly overpriced and leaves out in excess of 50 million people including millions of children. The lies and scaremongering have already started with ads on TV which distort the truth so much they must have been written by Bush devotees. The ads point out faults in the British and Canadian system, faults that exist in the US system by the truck load, they forget to mention that fact. If you think the health insurance companies here have your best interests at heart then you need to check yourself into the nearest mental health clinic ASAP. Oh! check your policy to see if you are covered first. In conclusion I still have 95% of my teeth and they are in good condition thanks to the British National Health system and very expensive US dental procedures.
    Wake up and use your brain.

  91. Mike says

    I wana write a letter to the ppl who think that these new lightbulbs are a great idea. I agree with most of the comments here. They’re ugly and they hurt my eyes a bit. I feel as if my right is being taken away that now i have to buy these new ugly ass bulbs. I am gona do what DAISY is doing and stock up on alot of the old skool light bulbs.

    Does anyone know the address to whom I can write to disgussing my issues. I think we should all keep writting letters complaining about the negativity of these new bulbs. Toxic poison, ugly lighting etc etc

  92. Mike says

    I agree with most of the comments on here. All I really have to say is that I think that as Americans, it should be OUR choice whether or not we wana light our homes with old fashioned light bulbs or the new ones that are coming out. I feel as if part of my freedom as been taken away.

    Does anyone know where I can write to whoever’s in charge of this matter because I would really like to express my opinion. The ones who are against these new light bulbs, I think we should all write a letter to whoever is in charge, express our feelings towards it and MAYB they’l reconsider the idea, who knows.

    If anyone knows where I can write to the person in charge, please let me know. Thanks!

  93. Daisy says

    Mike, Unfortunately, Bush, in a spectacularly spineless moment, signed into law the bill passed by Congress that proclaims an end simultaneously to free choice and the existence of incandescent light bulbs. Since it was Congress that propelled this travesty, I suggest that you write to your Congressman. Good luck w/that considering the pandering that goes on in Congress .. especially under Obama’s People’s Republic. BTW, I’m glad I started my stockpile when I did .. the better bulbs are going to the stratosphere in price .. although they have not yet become as expensive as the ‘economical’ CFLs.

  94. Keith says

    Mike is right in some respects, the CFL bulbs are ugly and some of them do have a funny color spectrum. As I am sure you realize, these problems will be addressed over time. Look how almost every technological advance has improved almost beyond recognition as the products are refined. Remember the old ugly TVs, compare them with today’s sleek models, the same is true of cars, PCs, cameras etc.etc.etc. Remember when cordless power tools first came out they were expensive, underpowered, heavy and ugly and the batteries weren’t worth a damn. Not today’s models.
    My big beef is with people who just slam the idea of change for the good of us all, because it will cause some disruption or inconvenience in their lives. There is NO RIGHT to be able to buy and use incandescent bulbs forever. Just as there is NO RIGHT to use leaded gasoline or lead paint, although I expect that there are still some people who bemoan this. They have some twisted belief that lead paint was better or lasted longer or was prettier so they demand their RIGHT to use it. Those of us who use some common sense and bother to do some research know that using lead in products such as gas or paint is incredibly stupid and irresponsible. The same is now true of the change to much more efficient fluorescent and eventually LED light sources. Yes there will be problems to start with but the long term benefits are undeniable.
    People who always shout about their rights make me mad, these people fail to use the other R word namely RESPONSIBILITY. Without RESPONSIBILITY no one will have any rights. Responsibility must come first for responsibility is the guardian of our rights.

  95. Johnny says

    Hello, Ever since I started using those kind of florescent light bulbs all of each my room in my apt in November 2008. I thought they were nice and kinda kewl with white as being more modern look and brightness. But then I started having scintillating scotoma and migraine headaches right after that. Until now I am having trouble seeing in places like U would see after thousands of camera photo flashes into yur eye. Just today, I had to remove all the florescent light bulbs and replace the normal ones. Had I known it would have caused troubles in my eyes I would never have brought them and I am pissed. Before I even had those light bulbs I never had any of eye problems in my life. Even my father says hes heard it is causing lots of people eye problems?? I believe we should have a chioce to buy regular bulbs or florescent bulbs. I would hope Govnt never ever rid of normal regular bulbs!!!!! Give us a choice and to choose which is safer. Its something we learn from it Thanks JS

  96. Keith says

    After reading your post about the onset of scintillating scotoma I did some research. I found many reports of this malady with causations ranging from the use or consumption of drugs or alcohol to exhaustion from overwork to staring too long at video screens. I did not see any mention of fluorescent lights as a cause, this is not to say that they are not causing your problem. It does however point to the fact that this condition has many, many causes. Perhaps you should do some research and see if your own habits may be causing your problem, habits that may seem quite innocuous but may never the less be the root of the problem. I am convinced that the wholesale adoption of fluorescent and LED lights will be of immense value to the country in reducing our dependence on foreign oil. Remember also that like every other technological advance that we have experienced these new lights will improve immeasurably over time, so that deficiencies that we now are aware of will be quickly fixed. We need to have a little patience.

  97. Mike says

    Keith to some aspects you’re right but I also think that it should be OUR choice whether or not we wana buy regular light bulbs for our homes or the new flourecent bulbs. This almost feels like congress is making a choice for us and thats not right. Just cuz they like the idea doesn’t mean we will too. America is about freedom and by that we should be able to make our own choices and do as we feel, as long as no laws are being broken. now if it was up to me, I would address that both light bulbs should be in stock so that everybody can choose whatever best suites them. Some ppl like the flourecent bulbs and others like the regular ones. SOME of the flourcent ones I do like. One particular one that I do like are the ones that have that orange glow when u 1st turn them on. Those are kinda cool but thats besides the point. The point that Im trying to make is that we should be given a choice whether we wana buy the old skool regular lights or flourecent.

  98. Keith says

    Jason, thanks for your calm and reasoned comments.
    You are right Congress is making choices for us that’s their job, they make many choices for us every year that’s why we should evaluate our elected representatives carefully. Not just automatically vote for them based solely on party affiliation like those who proudly proclaim to be LIFELONG members of one party or another. Such people have never had an independent thought in their lives.
    But I digress, I can only repeat my previous arguments, fluorescent and LED lights SHOULD replace incandescents. Congress has made the right decision (you could have knocked me over with a feather). None of the arguments in favor of incandescent lights are valid, just like every other technological advance that we have experienced CFL and LED lights will improve dramatically and will reduce the staggering amount of electricity that we now waste on inefficient incandescents by orders of magnitude.
    As to our right to have incandescents, there is no such right go read the constitution and try finding one. As I have already stated we no longer live in small isolated communities and raise our own food. If you want to live in the 21st Century in a western democratic society then we MUST have sensible rules and laws that benefit the overwhelming majority of the populace. I am Anglo American so why shouldn’t I be allowed to drive on the left. I prefer the old leaded paint so why can’t I have the right to buy it and Asbestos insulation. I swear that I got better mileage with leaded gasoline so why can’t I buy it and on and on and on. Freedom does not mean that you have the right to do anything you want to do. If I owned the land next to your house and tried to build a garbage tip there I am sure you would scream bloody murder. Why should I listen to you when I owned the land.
    Do you see where this is going, there is NO RIGHT to buy and use incandescent lights for ever. If we cannot agree to abide by sensible rules then the only alternative is ANARCHY. Go live in Somalia and I am sure that you will rapidly come to the conclusion that giving up incandescents is a small price to pay for the benefits of this society that we enjoy.
    Lets start urging people to exercise their responsibilities instead of demanding NON-EXISTENT rights.

    • Mike says

      changing the subject just a bit, whats gona happen with flourecent lightbulbs such as the tubes u see in stores and in offices or even the circle flourecent bulbs? are they still gona be in the market or do they think that they’re also a danger to our health.

  99. Keith says

    Mike, You say that we should have the right to make our own choices as long as no laws are being broken. Think about that statement, you seem to have shot yourself in the proverbial foot. Congress is making a law that says if you use an incandescent light you will be BREAKING THE LAW. Ergo making a choice to use an incandescent would be BREAKING THE LAW, you would be completely contradicting your own statement.

  100. Daisy says

    Thus spake the Anglo-Socialist, Keith. Congress – despite being under the influence of the economic pressure fueled by the false “science” of global warming – and the profit incentive of manufacturing plants in China deeply interested in selling crappy CFL bulbs for lots of money – has absolutely NO business dictating what kinds of bulbs free Americans can buy. It’s Fascistic and I think we’ve had quite enough of the Left’s Fascistic schemes in this millennium thank you. If enough people w/bad taste insist on demanding ugly things to buy, well, I have to suffer by looking at your stuff. Those of us w/good taste also have a right to our share of market goods and the market needs to remain free in order to create the profitable supply for our demands. You just have to squirm over my superior sensibilities. That’s freedom. Deal with it.

  101. Mike says

    Again Keith, in some aspects you are correct. The flourecent light bulbs do save energy and I’m guessing would cut down on the power stress that the power grids face using up energy with old skool light bulbs but as i told you b4, we live in a country where we can do as we please (as long as no laws are broken) and say what we want. (Freedom Of Speech) The fact that congress is making choices for us is unacceptable in my book. Its almost like they’re saying, ” I DONT WANT U EATING ANY MORE SWEETS BECAUSE ITS VERY UNHEALTHY FOR YOU, SO I WILL PASS A BILL TO BOYCOT SWEETS FROM BEING SOLD AT STORES. IF WE SELL ONLY FRUITS AND VEGATABLES, AMERICANS WILL SEE HEALTHIER RESULTS AND NO OR VERY LITTLE HEALTH CONCERNS.” What i just stated about fruits and vegatables and sweets is true. Sweets are unhealthy and will cause you to gain weight and possibly die at an early age and if you eat your fruits and vegetables, most likely you will live longer but theres no guarentee cuz shit happens. There are some who choose to eat sweets all day because they dont care too much about their health but thats their choice. Most americans enjoy sweets so why should some asshole take away our rights to enjoy what we like just because they say so???? I”d tell them to kiss my ass. And those who choose to live longer and to look fit will eat fruits and vegetables which is another choice. Thats one of the beauties about this country. You’re free to make choices. So the fact that congress is making a choice for us to phase out incandecent bulbs, is almost like they’re taking a right from us. If everyone member in congress wants to put flourcent bulbs in their homes, again thats their choice. Just because they like it doesnt mean everyone else will like it and again we gota look at the facts, accidents do happen. u accidently drop and break the new bulbs. Studies show that it will post a health hazard for anyone thats at the location where the bulb broke. Its not like u can just clean it up and not worry about anything. They contain mercury which is deadly. Many ppl who I know who had those new bulbs have told me they’ve had headaches from those bulbs and im talking about REAL BAD headaches and other ppl in here whos been commenting have also complained about other health issues they had, all because of these new shit bulbs. In the beginning, nobody ever complained about incandecent bulbs, only that it produces more heat than light. i guess i’l have no choice than to stock up on a whole bunch of incandecent bulbs. we still have 5 more years to go that they’l be around (supposely) but I’m sure that even after the 5 year period, they’l still be around in certain stores.

  102. Mike says

    Keith, no disrespect intended by any means but if you wana live in a place where you want someone to run ur life, then mayb U should leave the country and move to a communist country, then you can see what its like for ppl to tell u how u should live ur every day life. :]

  103. Keith says

    Mike, Daisy, maybe you should read some history books and then some books about how a democracy actually works. These rights that you constantly claim you have DO NOT EXIST. Then you start the same tired old childish harangue about communism, I am no communist and I have never been a communist, neither of you have the slightest idea what you are talking about. WHAT DO YOU THINK WE ELECT PEOPLE TO CONGRESS TO DO? sit around and drink cocktails? their job is to make CHOICES in the form of legislation (laws) that enable us to continue to live in a free society. You are the dangerous ones, you are Anarchists because you mistakenly believe that freedom means that you can do whatever you want and to hell with anyone who opposes you. You probably own guns and want to use them against me because your paranoia makes you believe that your NON-EXISTENT RIGHTS will be taken away from you.
    I have told you many times that you should live in Somalia where your are completely free to do ANYTHING. I prefer to live in a country like this one were my rights are proteceted and sensible people make sensible rules for the benefit of everyone. That is NOT COMMUNISM. You never address the point I make about the banning of the use of lead or the fact that we are all required to drive on the right for our own safety. Of course you don’t address them because they make all your arguments appear foolish/\. put your money where you mouths are and leave the country yourselves, it is obvious that you are dissatisfied, oh! and take your guns with you you are going to need them.
    Before that you should take some classes about how this country works as you obviously have no concept of this. The most important thing to learn is this, freedom does NOT mean that you can do anything you want. If you are so pigheaded that you cannot agree on something so obviouslysensible then there is no hope. Remember also that when Congress makes a choice it is doing exactly what the constitution requires it to do. Remember the constitution, go read it and you may be shocked to find out that listening to Rush Lumber is exactly the wrong way to get at the truth. Rush Lumber is a multi millionaire and you don’t make that kind of money by telling the truth on hate radio stations and he knows it.

  104. cristi says

    but wait? if these bulbs have mercury in them, does that mean there is a chance we can get cancer from using them in our home?

    and if so then i dont think that they’re worth saving money on your electricity bill

  105. Keith says

    Cristi, NO you won’t get cancer by just using CFLs in your home. Yes they do contain a minute amount of Mercury, so do thermometers that you may put in your mouth. Mercury may also be in the thermostat that controld your heating and A/C. Mercury may also be in the tuna that you had for dinner. Other carcinogenic substances are in your home, Nitrites are in your bacon and other deli meats, Chlorine is in many cleaning products. Selenium may be in your laser printer, and for heavens sake don’t stay around if someone accidentally sets fie to any man made fabrics because the smoke is very toxic. Not to mention cigarettes and of course ALCOHOL which together kill more people than virtually all other causes combined. The list goes on and on, Mercury in CFLs is of concern but there are many other potential hazards that we just take for granted and take reasonable precautions against that the dangers are minimal (far less than breathing second hand smoke).
    There are people who post comments here that DO NOT UNDERSTAND this and start accusing people such as myself as being communists. They think that ANY kind of reasonable rules and regulations violate their rights, rights that do not exist by the way, such as the right to buy any kind of light bulb they desire. What amendment to the constitution says that?
    I have said it before and I will say it again, freedom does not mean that you can do anything you want to. That is called ANARCHY and if you are so driven that you desire to do ANYTHING you want regardless of the harm you may do to others. Then please, please go live in Somalia, those people NEVER, NEVER respond to that. Why? because it smacks of the truth, No civilized society can exist without laws, rules and regulations and if banning incandescent light means that we can save enormous amounts of energy so be it. I hate to sink to their level but they must all come from oil producing states in the middle east and are afraid of the loss of revenue and the axe that they hold over the heads of the American people. Anyone who does not want to see progressive, reasonable and vital regulations enacted to save this country is a Communist or worse an Anarchist. They should all be rounded up and shipped of to their little bit of heaven in Somalia, with of course their guns, we must not deprive them of their guns. After all they will really need them in a country where freedom really does mean you can do ANYTHING you want, even buy incandescent bulbs That is if the local war lord hasn’t already stockpiled them). They will also need their own generators to produce electricity and for that they will also need middle east oil to run the generators. But that’s OK they want FREEDOM and they can have it. I together with the vast majority of Americans prefer to live in a truly FREE country where we our rights are protected because WE HAVE RESPONSIBILITIES THAT ARE THE GUARDIAN OF OUR RIGHTS.
    Sadly this is probably beyond their capability to understand they are probably listening to Rush Lumber to catch some pearls of wisdom.
    Good Luck.

  106. Keith Grove says

    This is addressed to someone who calls himself Keith Dipshit, why would anyone call THEMSELVES a Dipshit. That is unless they have a peculiarly clear insight into their own character but even then it is strange. I cannot believe I am responding to this disturbed person who out of their own mouth has shown that they are incapable of calm rational discourse, ah! well I will try to spread a little enlightenment.
    Communist, oh dear here we go again, Mr. Dipshit it is obvious that you have a very limited education (if any at all), communism by its very nature is a revolutionary type of endeavour, this country was created by REVOLUTION. Communism creates a rule of law and idealogy just like this country. Communism attempts to spread its law and idealogy just like this country. So are all Americans COMMUNISTS? Of course not, there are differences whereas communism does not speak to the responsibilities of the masses, the masses are suppressed and the autocratic leadership doesn’t care about responsibilities not even their own.
    I DO BELIEVE IN RESONSIBILITY and I take advantage of my right to speak without being pilloried by idiots, ergo I am not a COMMUNIST, your on the other hand demonstrate NO responsibility as is obvious from your childish and very limited writing . It is therefore obvious that you are either a COMMUNIST or an ANARCHIST. Both of which are odious in the extreme. Stop making a fool of yourself over subjects that you have absolutely NO KNOWLEDGE of.

  107. Keith Grove says

    To Mr. Dipshit,
    Please note that the name of the AUTHOR appears in the first line of the posting, NOT the addressee. That is why I assume YOUR name is KEITH DIPSHIT not mine.
    Another example of your limited intellect.
    Before replying try reading my previous posts, yes I know I have written quite a lot and some postings are quite long, maybe even longer than your attention span but please try to read them. Failing that have your mommy read them to you.
    Thank you and have a nice day.

    • Keith Grove says

      Mr Why,
      Why are you an idiot? and why don’t you use your real name are you a closet communist?
      Stop wasting valuable bandwidth, go read some history (assuming you can read) and find out what communism is all about.
      I’ll help you, communism wants to control everyone’s life and make everyone think in a certain manner and not to question their leaders or cause problems. Reminds me of fundamentalist republicans who tell us they have all the answers so we need not worry about anything and we do not need to question our leaders because they are only looking after our best interestd.
      So are all Republicans really communists? I am not a Republican neither am I a Communist. You however are sounding more and more like a closet something.
      Have a nice day.

      • jim smith says

        It is time you Americans wake up and realise that your action are costing the rest of the world (and yourselves) a future. Saving energy is agood thing. You should support it ratehr than going on about your freedoms. We will have no freedom left in 50 years. We will all be screwed with idoits like you lot. This is why the rest of the world hate Amercians. Your freedoms over everyone else.

        • Pete says

          umm JIM SMITH, the last time i checked, I AM the one paying for my light bill so I will decide how much energy I’l use in my house, not the government or you’re dumb greenie friends. If using incandescent lights, which brings out much better light quality means that im wasting energy, then so be it. Just because YOU cant afford to pay your light bill doesnt mean that everyone else is in the same boat as you. Maybe u didnt realize that compact flourecents don’t work in all places of ur house. that means u would have to pay a shit load of money to get your fixtures replaced. All for what? Just to use horrible light???? i dont think so!! Now dont get a heart attack but i have hundreds of incandescents stocked up and ready to go. have fun in ur poisoned mercury filled cfls.

  108. Keith says

    Jim, you are right I am on your side just read some of my posts. Those who are screaming about their rights are idiots, however there is one thing that you said that I do not completely agree with. That is the statement that the rest of the world hates us. Yes there are people who have fundamental disagreements with our way of life, Al kaeda, the Taliban and extreme lunatic fringe sects of many religions such as Islam. Of course right here we have people with similar insane views against those who hate us. In my opinion ALL religion is insanity and ALL religion is just a scam, but lets not get into that right now.
    Most of the rest of the world do not hate us in fact they are sorry for us, we have got ourselves into such a position that we are impotent. The political parties are ideologically opposed to each other not because they honestly believe the other person nis wrong they are doing this out of sheer bloody mindedness. They just want to see the other person fail, which is exactly what rush lumber actually said. Other countries want the US to succeed not fail, they are confused and frustrated they want America to join them not act in an arrogant bullying manner which is exactly what the Bush administration did and look where it got us. We need to show the hand of friendship, cooperation and leadership to our friends and a hand with a big stick to our enemies.
    We are NOT hated I can assure you of that.

  109. Mr. Heck says

    Keith, I am on your side about the energy crisis. i have all cfls in my home and have for over a year, i am activly trying to get the hotel i work at to make the switch now to save a little seeing as they will have to anyway by 2014. you seem very smart and i have a question not pertaining to energy. i was reading your responses to the ignorant anarchists above and you state the dangers posed not only by the miute amount of mercury in the bulbs but also ( I quote)

    “Mercury may also be in the thermostat that controld your heating and A/C. Mercury may also be in the tuna that you had for dinner. Other carcinogenic substances are in your home, Nitrites are in your bacon and other deli meats, Chlorine is in many cleaning products. Selenium may be in your laser printer, and for heavens sake don’t stay around if someone accidentally sets fie to any man made fabrics because the smoke is very toxic. Not to mention cigarettes and of course ALCOHOL which together kill more people than virtually all other causes combined.”

    My question pertains to the criminalization of marijuana. why?
    compared to cigarettes (or just about anything); no health risk, no risk of dependency. just like the candy and vegetables arguement why can i choose the so-called cancer stick at 18 or the liver killer at 21 soon to be 18 but i cant smoke or vap or bake into foods or take in pill form thc? where no direct thc related cancers or deaths have ever been recorded. sure maybe you could get hit by a stoned driver but it wasnt pot that killed you it was the potheads choice to drive stoned. i smoke pot almost every day and never wake up with a hangover, never have i vomited becasue i smoked too much pot last night. i dont drink for the sheer fact that i get sick after ingesting the poison. not to mention we are in an economic rut and the decriminalization of the relativly harmless plant houses a potential multi-billion dollar market. and why not criminalize something like cigarettes which are proven to cause cancer AND manufactured to cause dependency. i hope you may help to clear up these issues as i fight to decriminalize this peace bearing plant.

  110. Keith says

    Mr. Heck, thank you for your thoughtful comments, I agree with you wholeheartedly, BUT.
    On the surface it would seem that pot is less harmful than either alcohol or tobacco but let’s not fool ourselves it is harmful. Should we criminalize the use of alcohol and tobacco just like we criminalize pot? perhaps we should. The cost to society of the effects of alcohol and tobacco are nothing short of staggering, my wife has two younger sisters who are going blind in their early 60′s because of cigarettes (medical opinion not mine) however she and her elder sister have no such symptoms as neither of them smoked. Tobacco has No redeeming values. Alcohol on the other hand can be viewed in two ways, I enjoy wine and beer in moderation and mild consumption of wine can been shown to be medically beneficial.
    Lets face it trying to criminalize either would be impossible.
    Why then should we de-criminalize the use of pot, which despite your protestations is NOT a harmless house plant. Pot has some useful medical uses for those on chemotherapy for instance and should be used for such legitimate purposes just as we allow the use of many other dangerous drugs. The medical and social research into the use of pot shows it to be overwhelmingly deleterious, there are NO good effects of the use of pot other than the ones I have mentioned. Some people tolerate the effects of drugs such as pot but the majority of people are much worse off from its use.
    Society already has an almost overwhelming list of harmful behaviours so why aggravate our problems by adding yet another one. Lets start promoting the consumption of broccoli and other dark green vegetables which are undeniably healthful and they taste terrific especially raw.
    Decriminalizing pot leads to NO beneficial results, there is NO up side, there are NO health advantages. You may feel that your use of pot may be benign but the societal fall out is very very negative.
    This all comes down to my central theme and that is that we all should show responsibility and the responsible thing to do when it comes to pot or any harmful drug is to not to use them no matter how good they make you feel. That feeling will fade but the harmful after effects of the drug will last FOREVER. Check your facts, your make an assertion that “no direct related cancers or deaths have ever been recorded” I am not sure that this is true. However there is NO denying that the use of pot can have serious harmful effects on many vital osystems in your body, it may not kill you but you may wish it had.
    If you are in fact using pot every day you should get professional help as one day that “pothead” driving stoned may be YOU.
    I will leave you with this last thought, the NRA and the other gun nuts scream about the rights of law abiding citizens being infringed upon by sensible gun laws. They completely forget that every single person convicted of any crime at any time in history started out as a LAW ABIDING CITIZEN. I have said this to many of them and they become very quiet and sober and start to think past the end of their gun barrels. You also are a law abiding citizen who happens to smoke pot, until the day you drive stoned then you become a dangerous “Pothead”.
    Good luck, get help.

  111. Uncle B says

    Now: ban V-8 gasoline engines, to save the economy, and ban the adulteration of Ethanol with gasoline on behalf of Halliburton(Saudi Arabia) ! Ethanol specific, high compression engines get fantastic mileages, but remain hidden by Bush policies, Google this yourself! Americans! do not fear change! Canada uses CFLs all the time! We love’em, and if you buy European brands and keep the written long life guarantee on the package, they will honor it by giving you a new bulb if yours burns out! Not So the American brands – buyer beware! The Chinese CFLs at the dollar shops are the best! IKEA sells very good ones too! If you install them all at once, you will see the drop on your power bill right away. They do not work well in cold locations at all! Don’t even try! Time to move on America! Time to move on!

    • Keith says

      Hallelujah, I couldn’t agree more.
      The problem in the US is pure unadulterated IGNORANCE. The average Tea Party attending right wing morons cannot think beyond the end of the smoking barrels of their assault rifles.
      While the bible thumping christian bone heads think jesus is just about to leap from the wings onto center stage and solve all their problems with everlasting life. What pathetic lives those creeps live, I would rather have George Bush back as president than spend eternity with JC, ugh!

    • William says

      I have over a thousand boxes of incandescents and i would NEVER use cfls. They dont last as long as people say it does and yes, they do have different colors but they’re still not that good. If u think that cfls are saving the planet, then you are just another religious nut job. Come over to my house and check out the 100 and 200 watt incandescents that i have. Oh no wait im sorry, u might get a heartattack :-D

  112. Anonymous says

    I often wonder if law makers contact the manufactors before passing bills such as this. I bought cfl bulbs a couple of years ago and went back to incandescent bulbs because the light it produced didn’t seem as warm and bright. Plus they are cheaper. Are the bulbs better these days? Will the cost go down when they are the only choice. The incandescent bulb has been around for over a hundred years. People are use to the way the light looks and most aren’t fans of the government telling what to do when they screw up most everything they touch.

    • Keith says

      The government cannot do everything, sometimes you have to do things for yourself. Such as read the available literature or read the labels on the CFL which tells you if the light is HARD WHITE or WARM. Have you never used a fluorescent light before, the long tubular ones that have been around for at least 50 years, they are all marked with the color of the light so just choose WHITE or WARM.
      Yes prices will go down, have you bought a PC or a TV recently, those prices have gone down dramatically so it is reasonable to expect the price of CFLs to also go down,
      As for the government screwing everything up, you must be listening to Rush Lumber. The government runs two of the biggest businesses in the world namely Social Security and Medicare both of which work very well. Even private industry acknowledge that these government programs could not be more efficiently run by the private sector. The government also runs our huge military and by all accounts does it quite well. We have the best Army, Navy and Air Force in the world or do you think we should subcontract these functions to Haliburton.
      Next time there is a disaster in your area such as a flood or forest fire, don’t call the government as they will probably screw things up. Instead call Microsoft or GE or Bank of America if you think private industry is so much better than government.
      Does government screw up? YES of course, does private industry screw up? well just look what has happened over the last few years, need I say more.
      CFLs and LEDs are the way to go, their widespread use will reduce our expenditure of energy dramatically.
      When gas lighting came about I am sure there were many people who would not use it because they felt that candles were better. When electric light came about there were even more people who objected to it as it did not have the flickering warm glow of the gas light.
      Incidentally contrary to popular opinion Thomas Edison did NOT invent the electric light bulb. The incandescent electric light bulb was invented by an English Industrialist named Joseph Swan who sold the patent to Edison.

  113. Harold McAllister says

    To all:

    Regardless of how we feel about the phase- out, the fact is, the new compact fluorescent light bulbs (CFL, CFLs) are here. I was shocked to realize on October 16, 2009 that the phase- out of incandescents has already been mandated, since the CFL replacements apparently are NOT ready for real world use. Out of the first twelve we bought in December of 2007, seven failed before a year was out, and the 8th failed shortly thereafter. The first one to burn out did so within its FIRST DAY of use. All were from a well known U.S. brand, but they were made in China (so we know nothing about manufacturing quality controls, tolerances or storage in transit). CFLs must not be turned on and off frequently and produce no extra heat, so any energy savings are partially (or worse) negated: they must stay on longer, and the furnace must work a bit harder during the winter. Those things aside, CFLs are NOT to be used in cold temperatures (as is the case for lighting of porches, garage doors or patios during the winter), cannot be used in conjunction with dimmers, do not fit in specialty overhead lamps like chandeliers requiring small- base bulbs and are a no- no in conjunction with motion detectors. Sadly, manufacturers have no incentive to address consumer concerns because they can charge more for CFLs, so if their use is mandated, they will just go out and celebrate. Are any of the issues I have raised in connection to their use being addressed by anyone?

  114. Daisy says

    To Mr. Harold McAllister,
    Thank you. You provide a real breath of fresh air to this board. But then I am a person who actually is capable of appreciating both freedom and reality, unlike some of the Totalitarian Environmentalists who would like to dominate the rest of us with their anti-capitalist agenda.

    Free the light! Give me liberty as well as decent light bulbs! Let those of us who prefer ugly, inefficient, toxic CFLs buy them as status symbols/relics of their false religion – Environmentalism – and let the vast majority of us buy esthetically superior, simple, safe and well constructed, and very significantly – cheap – incandescent light bulbs.

  115. Harold McAllister says

    Daisy:

    Thank you, but… ultimately, we are all environmentalists, even you. Why would we NOT want to preserve what God has so kindly placed before us, or not seek to minimize -or perhaps even reverse- any damage that our lack of caring, greed or other human attributes may have clearly brought upon it? Look at what unintended consequences from actions by an inattentive Soviet government did to the once majestic Aral Sea!

    It is said, with good reason, that the best in us can be found by winnowing the ideas of many -but this presumes the ability to listen to each other, and to respect each other while doing so. I know it is difficult and maddening to the point of endangering democratic idealism, yet it is the key to better futures.

    In retrospect, I believe that the idealists who pushed for the phasing out of incandescent lights meant well, and their heart was in the right place. Unfortunately, it seems that they did not listen (maybe they did not even seek?) to the wisdom of cautionary voices pointing to unintended consequences that will have to be addressed. I know of a physics professor at a local university that bemoans the fact that no one “consulted him.” Of course, that just means that set against society as a whole he is not that important. There is another problem, namely, those of us (yes, me) who SHOULD have given thought to the problem and spoken up but did not.

    So here I am. The tiny, tiny voice of an old man. I just hope that some others will raise theirs, too, until those we have placed in charge begin to take note. Perhaps some aspects of the now existing mandate should be rescinded or modified. Perhaps the phase out should not be total. Perhaps we need to retain some choice, as you say. I do not presume to know the answers.

    I do caution, though, that our valid concerns will be tarnished and ignored if we just devolve into accusing each other of being this or that. Data must be accumulated, data that cannot be refuted. As for the other temptation, remember that great prophets, teachers and more have told us of the power of kindness and of good words.

    I wish the best to us all.

    Harold

  116. Daisy says

    You are kind Harold, as well as wise (maybe the same thing, after all).

    Environmental extremism (driven by an anti-capitalist agenda) coupled with political and commercial expediency has led to the thorough banning of incandescent lights and in turn, effectively, the freedom of consumer choice. Overwhelming amounts of scientific data already exist that prove the purported causes of global warming bogus. However, the power of the relatively few extremists is such that reality is dismissed in favor of votes and sales. It’s impossible not to notice the neo-liberals are more concerned with symbols that convey the status of their (ersatz) compassion than with actually doing anything morally difficult and therefore compassionate. CFLs are a potent (although meaningless) symbol that conveys for them the message: “I am enlightened and you are not”. Two ultimate purveyors of their irrational message are Michael Moore and Obama. Simply going to a Michael Moore movie and then braying the bad news or displaying an Obama bumper sticker on their (capitalist made/bought) cars accomplishes the same goal – empty but fashionable solidarity of faked enlightenment. It’s going to take a lot more than kind words to stop this extremism .. still, your point is well taken that name calling isn’t viable. So thank you for that.

    Incidentally, I am not an environmentalist; I’m a conservationist.

  117. Uncle B says

    Dear Daisy, not a commie, but happy with the CFL’s I got! Truth is if you keep the guarantee on the Euro-bulbs, and they burn out, they give you new ones no questions asked, as for the American made ones, don’t buy unless guarantee is provided and keep the papers , bill included in a drawer after sales! I have the original CFL’s I go up to ten years old, still going strong! They seem to get to maximum brightness noticeably slower than when new, especially when it is cold, but still work fine! Politics aside, I got em to save on Electric bills, very high, near Darlington Nuclear plant in Ontario Canada! Bonus was they lasted much longer! I am and Environmentalist and Conservationist, I compost, garden, and use recycled every chance I get, I heat with Natural gas cause it is cheapest here, I added insulation and cut drafts to lessen fuel consumption, to save my own selfish pocket book! I really do not approve of what ROI expedient corporatists and Capitalists do to the country-side, and urban areas, and feel alternatives should be open-mindedly explored, I am appalled, as most Canadians are, with the American holocaust: 45 thousand compatriots die there, each year due to lack of adequate health care! How many Jews? Is Weisental looking? Are old, German Jews worth more than American Jews? We love one-another in Canada, and help each other out! If that is socialistic let it be! Canada is a beautiful, clean country, We love it! We try to keep it clean! We fight anything that pollutes our clean waters, clean air, clean soil! Our modern miners, lumber men, developers, contractors, face laws never faced by old-timers, we learned! Socialist? or Patriotic and faithful to the Land, over and above the precious ROI? Hard to say, but definitely not greedy, unpatriotic exploiters like Multi-National corporate interests in the U.S.A.! You sound like a well financially established American not willing to change the “Status Quo” one bit, because you are finger deep in your “sweet spot”. High oil prices, retreat in Afghanistan, defeat in Iran with the recent sale of the South Azadegan Oil Fields to China ( the largest oil discovery in the middle East in the last thirty years) and the consequential appearance of Chinese plutonium and Chinese delivery systems for it, there, and a re-balancing of “Mutual Destruction” for Israel and American influences in this oil patch may just perturb your “Sweet Spot” enough to annoy you and waken you to the new American realities! Don’t take my word for it SEE: http://uprooted.jessicareeder.com/2009/09/detroit-and-the-100-dollar-house/comment-page-1/#comment-3003
    for how it really is in America with rising oil prices and falling employment. growing unemployables roaming the streets, and mind bending inflation as the dollar sinks to all time lows and gold goes to $1100.00 a Troy ounce! I fear for you and the great fall you well propagandized, sanctimonious “game players” are about to face in the next capitalist economies natural “Downswing” and the impending greater depression it brings! Sure! the markets have surged forward, the “Numbers’ are higher! They have to be! Fools! These are devalued dollars, less purchasing powers, and the natural occurrence is re-numbering, not giving greater value, but possibly equal or even hiding less value! the “Re-bound’ is Bull Shiite! Smoke and mirrors! a numbers game for suckers! Buy a shot-gun Daisy, you are going to need it! You are so naive! so smug, so easy to violate, you make the corporatists quiver in delight! I beg you! Wake Up ! Read something good! Stop this CNN stuff! get real! The capitalism you defend sold you planned obsolescence built into you car, annual model changes to churn sales, sick bonds, hated the world over and despised as an “American Corporative Invention” and the total downfall and rapping of whole countries like Iceland! Do You think that if you defend this vulture v behavior it will bypass you? Caution! That’s not how they work at all, my poor virginal dreamer! All you have they will own, all you are depends on them, and if and when they pull the plug, you are nothing! and they don’t give a damn! They are “Numbered companies, soulless, run by the figures entities able to kill without retribution, victimize freely and shyster your ass at any time by changing the rules – look up definitions of the “Corporation” understand the basics of corporate law, then write back to me and tell me, are you part of the machine, or part of the road!

  118. Daisy says

    Uncle B.,
    Funny that you need to disclaim your Commie status so fervently. In general, you use an inordinate amount of exclamation points. Please know that all the exclaiming and proclaiming in the world is not (and never will be) a substitute for factual knowledge. While it may indeed be factual that you save your CFL receipts and enjoy the ugly lights and the awful light they cast as much as you enjoy composting etc. – most simply, nothing else you claim that has the merit of keeping up with the demands of reality. As such, I cannot effectively address your comments.

    However, I thank you for proving my point concerning the true agenda (anti-capitalism/jealousy of the same) of extreme environmentalists so effectively.

  119. Juliet says

    Wow, that Uncle B is truly deranged. As I see it, the issue is not so much are CFLs good or bad. Use them if you want, be my guest. The issue for me is how much government intrusion into our lives is desirable? Do you really want your government to be able to tell you what kind of light bulb you must use? How about what kind of toilet paper? How about how much water you’re allowed to use to make pasta? How about requiring everyone to dry their clothes on a line instead of using clothes dryers? These are all things I’ve seen floated in newspaper articles. We’ve got to draw the line someplace. Government is there to provide necessary services, like defense, and many would argue, education. America became great not because of our government but because of our freedom from government. Is our capitalistic system perfect? Far from it. But I would rather live in an imperfect but free society than one that deprives me of my ability to make my own decisions on the very minutia of daily life. (And by the way, Canada is a beautiful country. And they pay something like 13.5% tax on EVERYTHING, including food and clothing. Very regressive. That “free” health care system everybody raves about…Canadians are paying for it every time they buy so much as a stick of gum.)

  120. Keith says

    I see that Daisy is at it again. I am no totalitarianist on the contrary I want to free people from the horrors of right wing zealotry that says anything that big business wants to do is OK. let the oil companies put lead back in gasoline and poison our environment, let the paint companies put lead back in paint. Let the pharmaceutical companies produce drugs without any controls and sell them to anyone who wants them. take airbags and seat belts out of cars they are inconvenient and make the cars more expensive. Is that what you really want to do, oh1 and lets do away with speed limits and be able to drive on any side of the road that you want to. All in the name of freedom. lets go back to using candles and gaslights.
    Progress always requires some form of reasonable regulation, but of course “progress” is an unknown concept to the right wing zealots who want freedom from all forms of reasonable regulation.
    They are of course full of hot air because if you suggest a way in which they can have complete freedom of action with no goverment interference they NEVER take it up they never even respond to it.
    I will try again, Daisy if you love freedom SOOOO much then go live in Somalia, there you can do ANYTHING you want and you can have any gun you want and as many as you want. YOU WILL NEED THEM

  121. Keith says

    Uncle B, don’t waste your time on Daisy, she is a right wing terrorist bent on destroying every common sense rule or regulation that might interfere with her plans for anarchy. People like her have landed us in the mess we are in now. They would be only too happy to use their machine guns to force the retailer to keep selling the products that THEY WANT. If you want something different then you would need a bigger gun than they have to force the retailers to do your bidding. The sad thing is that they think this is FREEDOM.

  122. Keith says

    Hallelujah, Harold McAllister has it right, almost. I agree with everything he says except that there is of course NO GOD. This planet is OURS, the damage we have done is entirely OUR responsibility and OUR fault.
    Conversely the good and beneficial things we have done should be praised.
    This Earth was created by forces that we probably will never fully understand.It was not created by some old man with a long white beard who watches over us and wrings his hands at our stupiodity. This Earth is ours to do with as we please, hopefully those who take a stance of reason and responsibility will prevail over those who couldn’t care less and are only concerned with their own pleasures and convenience.
    The sooner we stop thanking some none existent creature for giving us this Earth and start acting like intelligent human beings, the better.

  123. Uncle B says

    Even Daisy has to admit, even the President is unhappy with current Wall Street bonuses that exceed the wildest dreams of the common working person! Fact is: America the Beautiful has some scars! For Example, Daisy, the “Cheap oil era” supports the cheap feed corn, with fertilizers and fuel, which supports the “Factory Farm” then the Super Market system, which causes the “Fat-assed American Era” – a whole population of historically measured, as physically larger people, a generation of “fat-assed giants”, the “Smoke Stack Era” folks, who became the “Legacy Workers” after the American to Asia capital migration fact, they are totally dependent (down this oil, corn, factory farm, supermarket chain) on oil for food! These peoples’ physiognomies what they are, cannot survive in a sudden, or even gradual switch to a veggie world, and without oil will perish! They will be unable to sustain themselves in direct competition with the Asian rice-burners, whom, due to American Capitalist manipulation of American Capital, they have been set against! I cite GM(America) – bankrupt and on the government ‘s dole, against American Capital financed, GM(China) 30 % profit for share holders this year! Paid out dividends, in safe, stable “Yuan” to the American Uber-Rich, Capitalistic Elite, on the Beijing, Shanghai , and Hang Seng stock markets, safe and far away from the dollar’s astounding fall, and same monies ready to be invested back into a paying, capitalistic system! The Chinese one! The original capital, earned in deluded trust by American workers, expecting a promise of return investment here at home in America, to support American prosperity and our way of life! Goddammit! The Peons got fvcked! How badly? The truth about Detroit City is one example, and don’t take my word for it, SEE: http://uprooted.jessicareeder.com/2009/09/detroit-and-the-100-dollar-house/comment-page-1/#comment-3003 If you are still impressed with the “Status Quo” keep in mind, a patriot has a site on the web exposing a super battery, purportedly using Depleted Uranium, this battery could solve our foreign oil debt, by resolving battery car dilemmas, if allowed out from under “Military Secrecy” cloaks – U.S. Navy Labs were quoted as source in the article – suddenly the article disappeared! Howcum? What happened to the patriot? How many other good things are we paying for, and not getting in our time of great need? And: Please tell me why the American Holocaust, 45 thousand dead each year due to lack of medical care, is allowed to go on? How many are Jews? Is the Weisenthal Foundation watching? Are old German Jews worth more than young American Jews in Holocausts?
    Daisy, America is the largest debtor nation in the history of mankind! BPA plastics have rendered our male children disgrace! The shortest penises in history! this goes unpunished, uncorrected! We suffer a capitalistic pandemic here at home! This country is being folded up and sold off! As we speak! China does not recognize or respect our patent laws! We are past the peak of oil production in the world, yet too stubborn and fixed in our ways to go Solar, Wind Wave, Hydro, Tidal, or Geo-Thermal, and insist that Nuclear fission will save the day! It will not! it does not produce a liquid fuel! Bio-diesel does! We ignore it! Asshvles! The mighty U.S.S.R. went down in the same stalwartly and blinded patriotic way! Unchanging and faithful to the very end, and as the very end closed over the last Soviet uniforms, songs of their greatness, their infallibility, echoed through-out the abyss! Americans currently suffer paradigm shifts they can hardly swallow, and the convulsions in American society to come will disembowel poor Daisy and throw her entrails to the beasts! the Capitalist marauders she lauds and worships so! Change is here in America! GM is dead! the Rust Belt exists! Katrina really happened! We buy our cars from Asia, Oil is on the rise, and we have none at home! The shysters have bought up all the Uranium available, and it is the next great fuel. The infrastructure, roads and highways to be replaced by electric bullet trains and battery cars, the jet planes will slowly cease to fly, the telecommute will replace the ‘burbs near factories, businesses and the very fabric of our society will change, force upon us by world circumstances, the Asian fact, Oil shortages, Food shortages, Wealth redistributions into “Yuan” and away from our “fiat” dollar, and technologies we Americans cannot even fathom, will be developed by Asian intellectuals, in a science remote and as foreign as their languages are to us! The Intelligentsia of China alone, More post-graduates this year, with IQ’s of 130+, and multi-lingual at that, than the U.S.A. has high school students, drop-outs included! – All inexpensively, dormed, public students, on rice and veggie diets! No heavy, expensive meats, sports cars, sports stadiums, massive booze and drug bills, astounding illegitimacy rates, high STD rates – All, clean small smart fast folk, and hungry! India holds the same rude surprise for the over expanded American ego! They too have a huge, higher IQ, post graduate, multi-lingual vegan population, and they dominate the software world even in America today! What will all this intelligence bring to the 21st Century? Certainly more than the Americans, the heavy. high calorie intake, spoiled, pampered, well dressed, gaming computer equipped, expensive to raise “Foot Ball Stars” the same ilk who engineered the downfall of the once mighty GM(America)! We are now “Third World” and sinking fast in a selfish mire of corporatism, capitalism, and greed, and without massive paradigm shift will soon see the end of our Empire here on earth! Daisy! Change is coming! What kind is your only choice! Will it be Obama’s socialism, Health care, cut-backs, higher taxes, for better schools, higher standards to live up to. or shall we let the “Good Times Roll” right into Third-Worldship” and decimation of all that once was good in America? Your call.

  124. Keith says

    Daisy, you have been listening to Rash Limbo again because your latest diatribe is straight out of his play book. You must have missed his recent interview on TV where he had these fake yawns as the interviewer tried to ask him some probing questions. He did however say one important thing when asked if he deliberately distorted the facts on his show. His answer was illuminating, he said that it did not matter if he distorted the facts the more outrageous he was the more people listened the more he could charge for advertising the richer he became. Then he yawned again as if too say the more the morons listen too me the richer I get.

  125. Jack says

    Keith – take a deep breath! Breathing into a paper bag should help. Sounds like you’re about to pass out.
    Your diatribe from 10/20 9:26 am is different in that all the “examples” used can be proven as fundamentally beneficial based on available evidence while global warming is based on junk science. You seem set on believing the gospel of global warming which is not supported by evidence and certainly is not supported by the entire scientific community. Be that as it may, while I use my seat belts; support less toxicity (lead); willingly purchase vehicles with air bags; believe in the validity of speed limits and driving on the same side of the road; willingly leave behind me the use of candles and gas lights (thank God for our free market economy overcoming those days); I also believe that the government is way tooooo much in our shorts. You also need to read your constitution, and the writings of our founding fathers. The federal government has much too much authority and control much as our founding fathers attempted to limit.
    Jack
    P.S. It is apparent to me in all likelihood that you worship daily at the feet of your profit(ing) Al Gore. I’ll take my God & Jesus any day, sport.

  126. Keith says

    And I had some hope that you were really intelligent after all you seem to agree with the points I have been making, but alas you fell at the last few jumps.
    What on earth the development of electric light has to do with OUR free market economy I cannot imagine. Who’s been worshiping at the altar of capitalism then. Now your true colors appear “global warming is junk science” who told you that? Or did you work it out for yourself. Am I going too fast for you? you said that I needed to slow down. It appears that you on contrary need to WAKE UP. Have missed the news, it isn’t just Al Gore who believes that global warming he real just about every legitimate scientific organization believes that also. Of course you won’t hear that by listening to Rash Lumber or Fox Noise.
    So you would rather have Jesus Christ, I don’t think so, are you aware that JC was the worlds first SOCIALIST in fact he was the first COMMUNIST. Oh dear you had better think this over again, in fact you might want to learn to THINK before showing your complete lack of basic understanding.
    You probably think that evolution is junk science as well, oh you are in a pickle aren’t you.
    Next time you write anything get an intelligent adult to go over it before posting it.

    Have a nice day.

  127. Jack says

    Our agreement on anything would be entirely happenstance, believe me.
    Your convoluted attack on my comments and by engaging in personal attacks and name calling regarding me personally you prove your true self as a garden variety, mindless supporter of the failed notion of strong central government. The fact that the feds find it necessary to “screw down” to the level of my light bulbs proves my point. I distrust “big” anything (business, unions, etc), but they absolutely do not rise to the level of a tyrannical government as far as its ability to control our day to day life. I don’t have to purchase from GE, or buy stock in AT&T so I can avoid them. The strong central government we’ve been on track to since the 1930′s is nothing but tyrannical. We can debate what you call it (fascists, Marxist, communist, socialist) but they are all failed methods of government when compared to the liberty based government intended by our forefathers. No, better call it as it is – - they’re tyrannical and our forefathers expressly opposed them. The reason for our success is our founding fathers started us off based on the notion of “freedom”, but we’ve allowed politicians, and their corrupt morals, to drift ever more purposely toward the tyranny of strong federal controls. The pitiful thing is we’ll be saddled with tyranny and on the hook for “TRILLIONS” of dollars to boot.
    P.S. Hope you survive the wave when it engulfs you. My guess is you’ll make it until the 4th or 5th wave of “the politics of envy” espoused by just about all of today’s politicians as it makes its way down to you.

  128. Keith says

    Jack, please stop and think BEFORE writing. Now lets see, you say that a strong central government is “tyrannical” , “fascists, Marxist, communist, socialist”, you may be right. However the alternative to ANY of these is either a strong, albeit flawed, democratic government OR ANARCHY. You, my friend are an ANARCHIST or more frightening a Devil worshiper “do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law”. If you won’t see the common sense of adopting a different technology to light our world then all is lost. How do you expect us to come to an agreement on the other important questions facing us such as jobs, the deficit “left to us by those freedom loving republicans”, Health Care etc, etc.
    Good god, do you agree that we should all drive on the same side of the road or do you demand the right to drive on any side you feel like, in the name of freedom of course.
    The founding fathers gave us a set of sensible guidelines by which we can try to live together. You however have interpreted this to be “Freedom is the answer to everything” need jobs, FREEDOM, need more gas, FREEDOM, need public safety, FREEDOM. You are like those boneheaded republicans whose answer to everything is ” targeted tax cuts”. How the bloody hell do these morons expect a family who has just been evicted from their home and have NO jobs to pay $1000 a month and more for Health Insurance with “TARGETED TAX CUTS”.
    Freedom is great but it is not a panacea, you have to have rules, guidelines and yes laws, or all you have is ANARCHY. Anarchy is pure Darwinism, SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST, and everyone else DIES.
    If that is what you want then at the risk of repeating myself, go live in SOMALIA. Send me a postcard and tell me if you like it.
    What really blows my mind is that I am a non believer, religion is crap. Virtually all of my critics are bible bashing christians, what happened to “turn the other cheek”, “you are your brothers keeper” etc., etc., etc.
    Remember JC was the first COMMUNIST.

  129. Uncle B says

    Bantering about ancient philosophies, Socialism, Communism. Democracy! Folly! The Asian intelligentsia have devised, long ago, a very clever, balanced, sustainable system that goes by none of these labels, falls into none of these categories, and is over-taking the world as we speak! U.S.A. , the “American Dream” exists only in the propagandized minds of Americans! Nowhere else! For Example: Obama and The American Military today debate the value of clearing the way in Afghanistan, for a Halliburton(Dubai) financed pipeline to Turkmenistan, for access to the oil fields there, Chinese claimed oil fields! Obama hesitates for good reason! These schemes did not pan out well for America in Iraq. – Hidden fact is: Our soldiers fight and die, not for American soil and souls, but for foreign corporate interests! Mercenaries! Well! Goddamn! We thought they were fighting and dying for American brethren! Bull Shiite! We thought they were bringing “Peace” and “Democracy” to the poor downtrodden pitiable Afghanis! All Lies! Well! Fvck! America, and its cancer infested, corrupt, lobbyist controlled, ‘shadow” Democracy is the great harbor for the corporations of the world, totally sold out to multi-national corporations, and defender of Corporate territories! No more! No less! We, Americans, are owned operated and financed by Asia and the recent amassing of Capital, in Yuan, on Asian markets – even the flight of our own American earned Capital stolen from America by our own Uber-Rich, to be nestled safely and unpatriotically in the Chinese “Yuan” while the dollar is decimated for profit and astounding take-overs the world over! China bought, with U.S. dollars, Iran’s South Azadegan Oil Field – the greatest discovery in the Middle East in the last Thirty Years, The Jews of Israel are livid! They now face Chinese Plutonium, and Chinese Plutonium delivery systems in Iran! In the Ayatollahs hands! Secret or otherwise! To protect Chinese oil interests there! From us! The corporate marauders, not the American people who do their dirty work for them! The world is in the grips of and economic war and a great polarization of huge fortunes! Money talks, or nobody walks – even the Jews know this! China bought into the Great Canadian Tar Sands in a big way, and recently! Did you hear it on CNN, CBS, ABC, NBC? no! It was played down, muffled, and discreetly tucked in between “Shock Items” to distract you from seeing the truth! Propagandized in a very skillful way! We, great American Patriots! only exist in our own well propagandized minds! Not in the real events of the world! Will the intelligentsia of China break from filthy, environmentally damaging, American and current Corporate methodologies for the recovery of this, Canadian, World scaled, resource! You bet your Yankee brown spot they will! and sell the product to you out of Canada, at one Hell of a mark-up! Dumb oil addicted gasoline guzzling hulking American Neanderthal! And, steal even more from your coffers as you squander in great V-8 style your very existance! Another example of how they, the Asians, are really in control, and to save American face, humor the Great American Neanderthal in his death struggle with his own unsustainability! Asian markets and money are taking America without firing a single shot! The new world government is strong, well, and at home in Asia, today! America in not in Peril! It is well used by the Asian Masters! The great American Neanderthal awaits extinction, he arose too quickly in the Americas, a biological phenomenon, and is facing his own extinction just as quickly, in his death struggle as we speak, Addicted to Oil? Hell, No! Totally dependent on huge amounts of oil for his very food, oil based, GMO’ed corn, and ridiculously unsustainable transportation notions, in a world of scarcities, he bullies 80% of the foods and goods of the world and offers the threat of nuclear destruction to those who refuse him! His position on earth is now compromised by Asians, much more powerful intellectually, militarily smarter by far, (Don’t tell ABC, NBC, CBC, CNN, CBS, they have “Patriotic Blinkers’ on! ), fighting an economic war, not even on America’s favorites, the WWII styled battlefield or in the sky’s, with great pulsating ejaculatory jet-fighters! More Chinese post-graduates in sciences, math, physics with IQ’s of 130+ than the U.S. has high school students, drop-outs included, produced this year! India – same story but from and even bigger, and very sustainable vegetarian population! New, Eastern, and Asian philosophies, not even taught to the Great Hulking American Neanderthal in his ridiculously out-dated, restricted, sick, and insufficient schools, (32nd in world, Obama said it!) – I waste time enlightening you on this web! Great hulking “Hairy Monkey American Neanderthal! Go! Sit in your “Creationist” schools! Rationalize away your “Unemployables’ Swing your great unmannable armaments, save for conscription of your very asses, at the world! Your death throws are amusement to the greater Asian world, Your ways, humorous, tragic, fatally flawed, but comical! You flounder, like great beasts in the tar pits, ever sinking! We over-take, and modify your “great society” as we speak, one superior Asian car at a time! One fine minded, Asian educated, PhD, hired at a time! We watch your great powerful arms shrivel in the soup kitchen lines, and we slowly infiltrate, one good product at a time! Our Goal? Peace, and prosperity over all the world, an equal and fair and balanced sharing in the greater “community of mankind” (communist? Hell No! not Jew philosophies! fools, Asian ones!) of the wealth of the world, and the end of the Great Beast, The great hulking American Neanderthal, his very existance requiring 80% of all the whole communities resources, His claims? Christian! Democratic? His reality? much different! Daisy! I await you! I have my pants at half mast, my great uncircumcision in hand, my head shaved, Hitlers photo on the wall, my neo Nazi friends in attendance, Daughter of the Rothschild’s, I need your deep, wet, diamond studded, kosher badly! Please respond so I can smoodge my screen in great delight as I exert my manhood on your virtue! I await in high tension, throbbing, beating, anticipation! The pressure is building! Smack me! you great troll-whore! Smack me Down! Now!

  130. Keith says

    Phew! Uncle B said a mouth full didn’t he, he should win the prize for producing the biggest pile of horse shit ever squeezed onto the screen of a PC.
    I wonder what the “B” stands for? maybe it is “Bimbo” it fits but Sarah Palin has already laid claim to it.
    To be honest he may have some valid points but it is lost in the maze of misleading and downright schizoid logic that he uses.
    So my advice is to IGNORE him and maybe he will go off and rant in his own padded room.

  131. Uncle B says

    Dear Kieth, the “B” can stand for “bugger” for as long as I can wait for a Smack-Down, a great, juicy, wet, slobbering, licking, squirming, snack down from the great troll-whore. Kleenex in hand, I await, in heated anticipation! Don’t disappoint me darling Daisy, Keep your Kosher moist, and breath deeply and type!

  132. Keith says

    Uncle B, for once you are right assholes are no place for light bulbs. However this will be a problems for you, how will you know where you are going without a light in your ass. Your posts have proved that the only way you know to go is BACKWARDS.

  133. Keith says

    i am very stupid for liking CLF light bulbs. I am the governments bitch and this is why i am in favor for this change.

  134. Alex says

    Many of you don’t realize that the world is not going to just use CFL light bulbs and just LED light bulbs. All they’re saying is that light bulbs have to be more energy efficient by 2014. Incandacent light bulbs will not be totally banned. Even if they are, i can promise you that many many people will stock up on old skool light bulbs and will still use them even after 2014. In fact, they’re currently in the process of making energy efficient incandacent light bulbs that give off the same color as the old edison bulb, only thing is that they will save more energy. Hopefully they will succeed at it because to me CFLs and even LEDs give off shitty light. i have a chandelier in my dining room and let me tell u, theres nothing more soothing than coming home to a nice dim light coming from incandacent bulbs. Can u imagine putting CFLs on a chandelier?? Fuck that! The government whos in favor of the ban can kiss my ass. Nobodys telling me how to light my home. I have started stocking up on Edison light bulbs and I will continue to until they stop selling them.

    The next issue is heat. Yes Incandecents give off more heat than light but its all good. I live up north in NY and it gets pretty dam cold in the winter. So any sort of heat is welcomed. I see nothing wrong with saving the earth or whatever they’re trying to do but this going green business has gone too far. George Bush and his staff made a poor decision but hey thats no surprise there. I can see why a lot of Bush’s staff walked out on him. Who ever is in favor of this ban must like the goverment telling them what to do at every given moment. If thats the case, then those ppl shouldnt live in the USA and enjoy freedom. They should move to a communist country where the government can tell u what light bulbs u should use or what food u could eat or when to take a shit. If they’re going to tell u what light bulbs u can use then they may as well run ur life! As i stated earlier, they can kiss my ass!

  135. big daddy says

    CFL light bulbs suck! I will also stock up on the old lite bulbs that im used to having. Nobody will tell what i can use or not use to lite my house. Alex you are right. I also heard that they are making incandecent light bulbs that look EXACTLY like the bulbs we are used to seeing, with the same EXACT color and will save energy. I personally think they will be successful at it and then, hopefully they can phase out CFL light bulbs. I dont have a huge problem with LED lights but incandecents are a lot nicer and more pleasant. The only flourecent bulbs I like are the tubes and the old circular flourecents.

  136. Keith Grove says

    Sorry I forgot to include my e-mail, I am sure their are plenty of idiots who cannot think let alone reason who want to spew their vitriol on my response.

  137. Keith says

    How many times do I have to post this, Use what little brains that evolution provided you with.
    Remember when candles were the primary source of lighting, I am sure that there were many people who hated the oil lamps that replaced them and wanted to use candles because they liked the light. Then when gas replaced oil as the primary source of lighting there where millions who thought oil lamps were much better than gas and cursed the government or big business or Old Mother Hubbard or whoever else their addled brains could think of for taking the oil lamps away. Then when your much beloved incandescent lights came along there were even more morons who wanted to keep their gas lamps. History repeats itself yet again with even more morons who want keep their incandescent lights instead of accepting the inevitability of CFLs and LEDs.
    Fortunately history tells us that this too will pass and the idiotic mutterings of the brainless flocks will eventually sink into obscurity.

  138. noelia says

    KEITH take a deep breath. the fact that u wana be the governments bitch is ur choice. im not gona get into all this politics BS with u because u clearly like to stoop down to name calling and twisting ppls stuff around and im a bigger person than that. the fact of the matter is that, Me and MANY ppl for the right reasons dont agree with the decisions of congress. The simple solution is to sell CFLs LEDS and incandecents that are energy efficient and everyone will be happy. Not totally banning the product. Incandecents give off very pleasent lights and as stated b4, me and many, many ppl are stocking up on these bulbs. On top of that, THEY ARE in the process of making energy efficient incadecents whether u wana accept it or not. U can fill ur whole house with CFLs or LEDs if thats what u want. its UR choice. If u accidently break a CFL Bulb (and believe me accidents DO happen) dont come crying to anyone about it. ur poisoned! As i said previously, I will not have someone tell me how to light my house. If thats what you wana do, knock urself out. Funny how u tell ppl that they should move to simolia (How ever u spell it) mayb U should move out of the US since u dont enjoy ur freedom.

  139. Keith says

    Noelia, first of all you need to get a brain, you can’t even spell Somalia let alone realize that you are in fact the BITCH for the ignorant violent stupid right wing morons that talk about things that they have no knowledge off.
    If you read all my posts you will find that I started off in a calm respectful manner it was only when I was called every foul name under the sun that my attitude changed.
    Now lets look at some of the points you made, breaking a CFL poisons your home by releasing Mercury. What a joke, are you aware that most homes and businesses have thermostats that control the heating and cooling systems. Do you also know that these thermostats can contain at least 100 times more mercury than a CFL and these kind of thermostats have been around for a least 100 years. So why haven’t we heard complaint from you about this truly significant hazard, I know why, because you are too ignorant to know about it.
    Now about freedom, I know what freedom is and what it isn’t, freedom DOES NOT mean you can do ANYTHING you want to do. Sensible rules and regulations are NOT Communism or Socialism, that probably comes as a shock to you. The Constitution does NOT say you have the right to use incandescent lights, so shut up about freedom. Your perverted idea of freedom would say that we can drive on which ever side of the road we want too, we all realize that that moronic view of freedom is insane, maybe you don’t agree.
    If you read my previous post you would realize that progress is NOT a loss of freedom. If you don’t agree with that then you should be living in a cave and cooking raw meat over an open fire, maybe you do.
    Right wing idiots who scream about rights don’t have the mental ability to THINK. If you can’t write anything intelligent then SHUT UP. I realize that intelligence is anathema to the right wing.
    You may want to look up the meaning of the word “ANATHEMA” I will help you, you use a book called a Dictionary you can find one at one of those temples to intelligence called a Public Library.

  140. Gregory says

    I got news for u CFL lovers. Those light bulbs aint as good as ppl say they are. I had 3 of them burn out on me in less than a year. No wiring problem, no switch problems. ITS THE BULB! 2nd, the light that comes out is absolute SHIT! I dont mind the government encouraging us to use something if they feel it will save the planet. But to force it on us is not the way to go. This is just the governments way of trying to control ppls lives. Nobody forces them how to live their life so why should we be forced to?? The nerve of them! When u think about it, nothing has been solved with the ban. Many and Many consumers such as myself have been stocking up on incandecents that will last us a life time. That means that even after the phase period, I can bet u any money that thousands of americans will STILL be using incandecents. Even after the phase period. All this talk about using a CFL bulb to save the planet is all a crock of shit. Its the total opposite. One very good point that was brought up here that i didnt even think about it until i read one of the previous comments. And thats the refridgerator. CFLs and cold is like oil and water. They don’t mix. Whats gona happen after 2014 if u dont have anymore incandecents. Will i need a flash light to shine in my fridge to get something to eat for a mid nite snack?? Imagine that! I bet george bush and his genius staff members didnt think about that, just like the other decisions they make with out thinking…… KEITH, ur in denial. The mercury in CLFs is real! My baby cousin accidently tipped the lamp over with a CFL bulb in it and the bulb broke. Not knowing anything about the mercury, I simply vacumed the living room and left it alone. Later on that day she got very very sick and was vomitting a lot and her face got really really pale. I rushed her to the hospital and the doctors said she breathed some of the mercury that was still lingering in the house. so KEITH, all that stuff u said about thermostats containing mercury, to some levels ur right BUT I am living proof that CFLs can be toxic if not handled properly. Face it, accidents do happen and ppl will accidently break a light bulb. It happens. Hope ur toxic bulbs dont break on u. If so, better follow instructions or get ready to take a nice little trip to the hospital. If god forbid that happens to u, i wana see u make another comment about thermonstats. And think about it, they say that ur suppose to recycle CFLs properly and not throw them in the garbage. How many ppl do u think are actually gona take the time to go to a recycling center and dispose them?? My estimate, VERY FEW. That means that eventually toxic will fill the air and go into our drinking water. nice way to save the planet. Good work again Mr. Bush! KEITH, i have read some of the comments u’ve made. One of the many things u said kinda disturbed me. u telling NOELIA to shut up about her freedom. the fact of the matter is, anyone in the USA can light their house how they want to. If incandecents were that bad, it wouldnt have been around for this long and CFLs would of been taking the place of incandecents a long time ago. That example ur always giving about having the right to drive either side of the lane as u please is a poor example. Everyone knows that if u drive on a wrong way street, u may hit an oncoming car and kill the ppl in it. So yes, having driving laws is sensible. (just an example) Incandecents dont kill ppl, they just raise ur energy bill. With the nice quality of light they produce, its worth it. So u need to come up with a better example than that. If u honestly believe that CFLs are gona save the world, then u need to get ur head examined. Its all BS! Don’t bash on others just cuz they enjoy their freedom and U dont. We have something in this country called FREEDOM OF CHOICE. That means I will choose any lightbulb I wana use for my house. Its not killing anything or anybody but my light bill. Light quality is good as i said, so i dont mind. So KEITH, with all due respect, U NEED TO SHUT UP. If u dont enjoy having ur freedom, the solution is simple. LEAVE THE COUNTRY! Mayb u’l be happy in Canada. Up there they have patrol men knocking on ur door to make sure ur not using the so called “ANCIENT HISTORY ” Ur name calling and putting ppl down because they dont agree with ur opinion shows ur ignorance. But i dont need to say that cuz MOST of the ppl in here who left comments to u have already told u so.

  141. Keith says

    Dear Gregory, first of all I am not a CFL lover I am merely trying to stop the hysteria that is spreading over a sensible change in technology that will benefit us all. Those who are screaming about this must Palinites (followers of the new right wing savior Sarah P) just stop and think about this calmly rationally and intelligently, you know the exact opposite way that Sarah uses. Most importantly I hope the little girl has now recovered and will have no long term effects
    Now Gregory I am not saying that CFLs do not pose a poisoning danger because they do. I assume that you have removed every mercury thermostat in every home that she occupies because those thermostats are MORE dangerous than CFLs. I also assume that you did not know about this danger which just proves my point, we all live with dangerous products around us 24 hrs a day. The mercury in a thermostat is just one of those dangers, a badly adjusted gas jet can kill by producing excess Carbon Monoxide. A lase printer contains Selenium a poisonous metal, every time you print a page a minute amount remains on the paper.
    Almost every single household cleaner is far more toxic than any CFL and the most dangerous of all are alcohol, tobacco and guns, those three alone kill millions ever year.
    So should we ban thermostats, laser printers, gas stoves, of course not, should we ban tobacco and guns YES. Alcohol is the worst but I enjoy a glass of beer and wine occasionally.
    Now as to calling people names, if you have read my posts you will that I started off being very respectful. However I was screamed at called a socialist and a communist, I was called a government BITCH (Noelia said that) so be careful who you accuse of being DISRESPECTFUL.
    Once again you demonstrate the fact that you do not understand the meaning of the concept of FREEDOM. In any society there have to be rules regulations and laws, these are all part of FREEDOM. Without these laws there is NO FREEDOM, you seem to believe that any law or rule that you disagree with is an attack on your FREEDOM. You see I like it here because we do HAVE these rules and laws that is what makes us FREE. This can be a difficult concept to understand but laws, regulations, rights and responsibilities make us FREE. At the expense of repeating myself you are the one who should go to SOMALIA there you can have as many incandescents as your heart desires.
    Now as for Canada, Canada is a very free country where the Canadians have just as many freedoms, rights and liberties as we enjoy in the US. If you don’t know this then you are indeed as sad and ignorant soul. Now what on Earth does this mean ” LEAVE THE COUNTRY! Mayb u’l be happy in Canada. Up there they have patrol men knocking on ur door to make sure ur not using the so called “ANCIENT HISTORY “.
    Please explain this statement because I cannot make head nor tails of it “ANCIENT HISTORY”. Where did you get such rubbish.
    Many people in this country seem to think that the greatest danger is Al Quaida or drugs or crime or disease or religion they are wrong. The greatest danger to this country or any country for that matter is IGNORANCE. I am sorry to say that you exhibit some of the bad traits, you do not understand FREEDOM in fact what you espouse is known as ANARCHY. There is no such thing as a FREEDOM OF CHOICE, where did you get that from, except as framed by a specific law or regulation. There is no carte blanche FREEDOM OF CHOICE and there is certainly no law that gives you the unbounded right to use incandescents over CFLs. There is NOTHING in the constitution that prevents congress from banning INCANDESCENT LIGHTS, that is what I mean by IGNORANCE.
    Now don’t attack me, show me the evidence that disproves anything I have said, I know you cant but the reading you will have to do will be a good education for you.
    Just remember this, FREEDOM does NOT mean that you have the unfettered right to do ANYTHING YOU WANT. NO not even in the USA.

  142. Holly says

    A few months later, but still…to keep on topic of the light bulbs.

    1.) They now make CFL’s that usually have something like ‘daylight’ or ‘true day light’ in the title. These give a nice, bright white light, unlike the older ones that are yellow and dim.

    ————and as far as cost, I got mine at a big chain drugstore on clearance for less than $1 a bulb. They seem to have them on clearance or on sale A LOT.

    2.) They now make dimmable CFL’s in a wide array of ‘colors’ or ‘warmths’ (yellow vs white)
    ————–also got these on sale at same drugstore

    3.) They make CFL’s in more than 1 base size. They have most all shapes too, even globes for bathroom vanity fixtures. They even make a bulb that comes with an adapter, so that you can use it in chandeliers with a small base, or use the adapter and use it in a standard base.

    4.) They make CFL’s that are rated for lower temperatures, some even as low as -25 degrees F. They might take longer to work, be dimmer and not last as long, but they’ll still last longer than an incandescent.

    5.) Yes they contain mercury. Older mercury thermometers contain 100 to 600 times as much mercury as 1 CFL bulb. They contain about the same amount of mercury as a button cell battery. If it were all collected into 1 place, it would make a drop with a diameter of about 1mm. That being said, they still need to be disposed of properly, and the cleanup of a broken bulb takes a little more effort than cleaning up a broken incandescent. Maybe for now they should come with a foldout instructions for proper cleanup and disposal, easier to read than what’s printed on the package right now.

    And personally, even if a CFL doesn’t last years and years, I’d still much rather have to get out the ladder or step stool only once every year or two, than several times a year to change out the incandescent bulbs.

    Here’s a few websites with more info. I personally think that the future of lighting right now might lie in LED’s, they just need to improve the technology enough to make it cost effective while still giving us the kind of light we’re looking for.

    http://www.cflfacts.com/

    http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/promotions/change_light/downloads/Fact_Sheet_Mercury.pdf

    • Gary says

      1) I have used plenty of cfls b4 and almost all of them DO NOT last, NOT EVEN A YEAR. So i dont use them anymore. I have incandescents that i use EVERY DAY and they lasted for many years with out burning out.

      2) Yes, they do make dimmable cfls but they’re not 100% dimmable. they only dim to about 25% so their dimmable performance sucks. Incandescents, however are 100% dimmable which is one of the many reasons why incandescents will ALWAYS have nicer light quality than cfls. (thats just my opinion but im sure most ppl would agree)

      3) cfls USED TO be dim and yellow??? Most of them have not improved at all. They’re still dim, yellow and very gloomy. If cfls really improved, most ppl would prefer cfls over standard bulbs. But thats not the case.

      4) If cfls were as good and you say it is, government would not have to force them on us. The fact that they’re banning edison bulbs shows that congress feels threatened that most ppl hate cfls. And that is not just me saying it. Stastics show that incandescents have much better light quality than cfls AND leds.

      5) you’re not saving as much enery from cfls as people claim you are. MANY cfls take a long time to warm up and we use other things in our homes that also use plenty of electricity. So in the long run, you’re not saving much. Don’t always believe in what you read in the funnies or in magazine ads. They’re trying to brain wash you into a silly fiction that they’re good for our planet when in fact, thats the opposite.

      6) i see nothing wrong with having to change a light bulb twice a year. 1st off, it only takes 15-30 seconds to change a bulb, so u’l survive. also, the light quality from incandescents are much more superior than cfls and leds. i rather change a light bulb 2 or 3 times a year and have nice light quality than to not change a bulb for years to come and have pissed colored gloomy lighting. Now if u would rather have ur house look like the inside of a hospital, that is your choice. i dont know about u but i take pride in my house and like to keep it lookng like a PLEASANT HOME, not a hospital or an office. U may think ur saving money, but what ever money ur saving is VERY LITTLE

  143. Eddie says

    CFLs and LEDs are not gona be JUST our future lightning. Incandecent light bulbs that save energy are being made as we speak. In fact they say that either this year or in 2011 they will be on our store shelves. For all u CFL lovers, enjoy them while u still can. Once our energy efficient incandecents are made, i’m pretty sure CFLs and maybe even LEDs will be kicked to the curb. Then hopefully federal buildings will go back to using incandecents which not only will save energy but produces that warm incandecent color that we’re used to seeing. KEITH, all i gota tell u is that i have read MANY of your posts and one thing i wana touch upon is that i remember you saying that CFL light bulbs will improve?? i’ve been hearing that for many, many years and they STILL give off shitty light. i have alottttttt of friends and i can tell u that only 2 of them use cfls which blew out on them in less than a year. Keith, i’m sure you’re aware that CFLs dont work well with cold. So explain to us how we’re suppose use our refridgerators with cfl lights????? Looks like i’l need my flashlight to pick out what i’m gona eat as a midnight snack. Either way, I’m glad that incandecents are not going away. just have to be more energy effiecent and they give off the same light type we’re used to seeing in our edison bulbs. LONG LIVE THE EDISON BULB!!!!!!

    • Peter says

      Incandescent bulbs are inherently less efficient than either fluorescent or LED bulbs. All incandescent bulbs produce light by heating a filament to a high temperature. That high temperature causes the filament to release photons at various energy states, at a distribution dictated by the temperature of the filament, but in any case, the distribution is governed by the Stefan-Boltzmann law. What this means is that some of the energy will go to produce visible light, but much of it is simply wasted as heat. By increasing the temperature, it is possible to make the bulb brighter and somewhat more efficient (for example, halogen bulbs), but they will always release most of their energy as waste heat. Furthermore, heating a bulb to a higher temperature, other things being equal, will cause it to radiate waste heat to its environment at a faster rate. It’s simple physics. Also, remember the old halogen torchiere lamps that were taken off the market because of the fire hazard they posed, due specifically to the high temperature operation of the halogen bulb.

      By comparison, CFLs work by exciting mercury vapor inside the bulb to generate UV radiation, which in turn excites a phosphor coating to glow at visible wavelengths. LEDs excite a semiconductor junction to release photons, and again, this can be controlled to produce light of a particular wavelength. However, LEDs also dissipate heat and are generally not quite as efficient as CFLs, although improved versions are in development. LEDs are currently much more expensive than either incandescents or CFLs, but one advantage of LEDs is a very long lifetime–on the order of 25,000-100,000 hours, compared to 1000-2000 hours for an incandescent. I built a digital clock using LEDs in 1978, and the LEDs are still working. Another advantage of LEDs is that they don’t contain mercury the way CFLs do.

  144. Eddie says

    CFLs and LEDs are not gona be JUST our future lightning. Incandecent light bulbs that save energy are being made as we speak. In fact they say that either this year or in 2011 they will be on our store shelves. For all u CFL lovers, enjoy them while u still can. Once our energy efficient incandecents are made, i’m pretty sure CFLs and maybe even LEDs will be kicked to the curb. Then hopefully federal buildings will go back to using incandecents which not only will save energy but produces that warm incandecent color that we’re used to seeing. KEITH, all i gota tell u is that i have read MANY of your posts and one thing i wana touch upon is that i remember you saying that CFL light bulbs will improve?? i’ve been hearing that for many, many years and they STILL give off shitty light. i have alottttttt of friends and i can tell u that only 2 of them use cfls which blew out on them in less than a year. Keith, i’m sure you’re aware that CFLs dont work well with cold. So explain to us how we’re suppose use our refridgerators with cfl lights????? Looks like i’l need my flashlight to pick out what i’m gona eat as a midnight snack. Either way, I’m glad that incandecents are not going away. just have to be more energy effiecent and they give off the same light type we’re used to seeing in our edison bulbs. LONG LIVE THE EDISON BULB!!!!!!

  145. Keith says

    Eddie, thanks for your comments, I have not heard of these new efficient incandescents so I will have to some reading. But I must say that I am skeptical, as I am sure you know incandescents work by raising the temperature of the filament to a level at which it becomes incandescent. This takes a great deal of energy the vast majority of which is a complete waste and produces a lot of heat but NO light. Less than 5% of the energy is converted to light. Over the years there have been attempts to make them more efficient by trying to reflect this heat back to the filament instead of letting it just heat the glass envelope. They have all been failures and have not increased the efficiency by more than a trifle.
    As to CFLs, remember when you had to use STARTERS to light up a fluorescent light? remember when fluorescents took several seconds to light and flickered during the process? Those problems have been eliminated by modern solid state electronics and yes those bargain basement CFLs made in China don’t last as long as claimed. However if you buy GOOD ones they DO.
    You can also get cold weather CFLs and even dimmable CFLs. CFLs have improved vastly and will improve even more because there is now a huge market for them that did not exist before.
    Now as to LEDs, there is absolutely NO way that an incandescent will get within orders of magnitude of the efficiency of LEDs. And yes they are improving as we speak, just remember LEDs have only been around for about 20 years.
    Incandescents on the other hand have been around for about 100 years ever since Joseph Swann (NOT Thomas Edison) invented them. During that time very little was done to improve them they are still almost identical to Swanns original, yes they are more powerful and the filaments are vastly improved.
    Take my advice, don’t buy stock in incandescent bulb manufacturers the future is in solid state devices such as LEDs and Electroluminescence.

  146. Keith says

    Eddie, just a follow up, I started to look for information on these new high effeciency incandescent bulbs. Almost immediately I came across this statement from GE
    “GE Consumers & Industrial and GE Global Research have suspended the development of the high-efficiency incandescent lamp (HEI) to place greater focus and investment on what we believe will be the ultimate in energy efficient lighting — light-emitting diodes (LEDs) and organic light-emitting diodes (OLEDs). Research and development of these technologies is moving at an impressive pace and will be ready for general lighting in the near future. LEDs and OLEDs used in general lighting are now poised to surpass the projected efficiency levels of HEI, along with other energy-efficient technologies like fluorescent, and have the additional benefits of long life and durability.”

    GE makes a lot of bulbs and it looks like they don’t have much faith in the future of incandescents.

    • Antonio says

      Keith, before i post my opinion on this matter, I must say that reading your posts is just about as entertaining as watching the comedy channel or B.E.T. Comedy Central. I see in the above post u have read that G.E. was suspending making energy efficient incandescents. Correct me if im wrong, but i assume that you got that information on google? i also read up on that information on google and that info needs to be updated. Halogen bulbs, which are incandescent bulbs with energy efficiency are being made and are starting to appear on markets. How do i know this? A) I have bought halogen bulbs in my house and not only do they give off the same exact warm light color that incandescents do but my light bill is lower. B) My girlfriends father works for Sylvania and he knows a lot of the big bosses in that company. They informed him that even though incandescents are being phased out, they are going to be exceptions. incandescents that are below 40 watts, above 100 watts, and the flood versions are not included in the ban. And as i told you before, Halogens are coming into the market and have proven to meet the standards on light bulb efficiency. The phase out that we’re all reading about just simply means that we wont see the huge variety of light bulbs we’re used to seeing. 40 watt, 60 watt, 100 watt etc etc. so once again, incandescents are not going to be 100% phased out. They will still be available after 2014 but with more energy efficiency. They just wont be the mainstream lighting source any more.

      Now you have stated in many postings that “THERE IS NO RIGHT TO USE INCANDESCENTS”. On that statement you are RIGHT. However, no where in the U.S. constitution does it say that government has authority to choose for us what light bulbs to use. See, I have no problem with congress suggesting or encouraging us to switch to energy efficient light bulbs. But to force it down our throats is a whole other issue.
      Yes, the current incandescents give off more heat than light which is wasting a lot of energy. But did u know that its not just that particular light bulb thats wasting energy. its many people who dont shut off their lights when leaving their rooms. Thats wasting energy. Just like if you leave a compact flourecent on for a long time. you may not waste quite as much energy BUT you are still wasting energy. People also waste energy by using other electrical things in their homes. So you cant just blame it on just the incandescent bulbs. these energy flourecent bulbs have many problems. They take a long time to get brighter, they dont work in all places and fixtures of your house and the lighting is quite gloomy and ugly. Sure, they’ve been trying to make these flourecent bulbs with the same warm color as the standard incandescents. No matter how hard they try, you will NEVER get the nice light quality from flourecents that incandescents have. A flourcent bulb is a flourecent and the incandescent is an incandescent. period! On top of that, their swirly appearence is also quite ugly. if these cfls or even leds are that good, let people decide that for themselves. The idiots of congress wana ban the edison bulb because they know that MOST people will always prefer the edison bulb over the flourecent bulbs any day. And who can blame them? incandescents give off nicer light. Now do i have anything against flourecent bulbs? Of course not! I find that the tubes and the circle shaped flourecent bulbs are very nice light quality. even though cfls are flourecents just like the tubes and circle shaped lights, the color from cfls are still different and again, they’re ugly in light quality and appearence. cfls have been around for at least 20 years now and they are STILL shitty and i havent seen any improvments on any of them. ive used these cfls b4 and none of them are as good as ur standard bulb and plus they dont last as long as many people claim they do. in fact i think its safe to say that many of them last just about as long as ur incandescents. Too much false advertisment just to get people to switch is not a good thing. Plus they are expensive.
      As far as comparing incandescent bulbs to lead paint, driving on the wrong side of the road and using guns are very poor comparisons. You need to give better examples than that. Yes, the U.S. is the land of the free with responsibilities and I am all for that. No one has the right to drive on the wrong side of the road cuz you’re dangering the lives of others. You shouldnt use lead paint cuz its harmful to you and u shouldnt own guns because they’re deadly. But what danger does the incandescent light bulb have??? Just that your light bill will be higher?? Give me a break! I see nothing wrong with living in a nice clean planet that nature provided for us, but this nonsense as gone a bit too far. Keith, i dont know about you but i believe that a persons home should be a place where you’re proud to keep clean and to look nice. Bad enough that my office building has flourecents. Why would i wana light my home where it looks like my work office? I am not going to make my home look ugly because of a stupid belief that congress has about saving the planet. Climate change has been around since the beginning of time. The earth always goes thru changes with the climate. you’l have periods of time where the planet warms up then it will cool down again. Human beings are not responsible with the climate changing.
      Now if you prefer to make your home unpleasent and gloomy looking because of a belief that you have, then thats your business. But to attack at someone elses comments because you disagree with their views shows how childish you are. You complain about others attacking you. Why shouldnt they? All u do is post AT people instead of TO people. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. If you choose to have your government down your jock strap 24/7, then again, thats ur choice. Seems to me like anything government wants u to do, you will do it. Even if it means using a ton of “lead paint” in ur house. But thats not how most people wana live their lives.

  147. Eddie says

    Well KEITH, if you can, let me know you got ur 411 from because i heard on CNN a few weeks ago that G.E is still looking for new ideas to build engery efficient incandecents. I find it very disturbing that you would agree with the government who FORCES us to use what HE THINKS is right, rather than suggesting. I make MY money to pay MY light bill. If I have to pay a bit more put of my pocket to have warm pleasent light from an incandecent, thats my choice, not the governments. Unless these assholes pay my light bill, they dont have a say in what bulb i use. Thats like saying, they’re going to ban soda because of the high sugar content which may cause americans to gain weight and have health issues there after. If i wana drink soda all day every day, nobody is going to tell me otherwise. I bought it with my money. so screw them! This is the land of the free. This is not Cuba. When you really think about it, the ban is not resolving anything. Its just causing people to go into a panic mode and to stock up on incandecents. Many, Many people have already stocked up on hundreds of boxes of incandecents, including me. I have enough to last me a life time and i’l probably have more to put in my will after im gone. So, many ppl will still use incandecents, even if they do stop selling them in stores after 2014. The only thing that the govenment is resolving, is installing these new energy savings bulbs into city offices and government buildings. Believe me, many, many people will still use incandecents even if they do get banned. Heres another issue which you and many people seem to ignore. we know that CFLs do poorly in cold. If they do ban incandecents, how are we suppose to light our refridgerators?? Are we going to start using flashlights to see what we’re going to eat for dinner. I dont think leds would work well for our refridgerators either but im gona research that. And how about our ovens?? I dont know anyone with an oven with a flourecent lamp in it. I live in the North East where it gets pretty dam cold in the winter. I especially like incandecents because it gives off warm heat. During the winter months, any sort of heat in my house is welcomed, whether its from a portable heater or a light bulb. These are things that are moron governments dont think about it. Instead they get off by having some sort of power trip. CFLs and LEDs do not work with everything, so banning the bulb completly is not going to solve anything. What they should do is have incandecents, cfls, and leds available so that us american consumers can choose whats best for them. Again i say, If they pay my light bill, then they can have a say in this but until then, THE HELL WITH THEM! im not buying those shit cfls and leds.

    • Will says

      You are the ass!!
      It’s not about who can afford to pay the electrical bill, it’s about saving the planet due to the energy wasted to run those old bulbs. If you are so ignorant to not care about the planet for yourself then do it for you kids or theirs.
      Moron!!

      • Alex says

        WILL, you’re the moron if u think that a compact flourecent bulb will clean the planet. Instead of being brain washed on what the disney channel has to say about cfls, maybe you outa do some research of your own. I am not going use ugly lightning in my house just because of a myth that cfls will clean and save the environment. Only a religious nut case like YOU believes such things.

  148. Daisy says

    “… Thats like saying, they’re going to ban soda because of the high sugar content which may cause americans to gain weight and have health issues there after.”

    Eddie, that’s precisely what Michelle Obama is up to w/her ‘concern’ over American’s – especially children’s (let’s hear it for the poor children) obesity. “Healthcare”, which failed when the Socialists attempted to raise our health insurance rates (for our own good) and dictate our medical care in an attempt for the biggest Federal power $$$ grab ever, will be the new ‘global warming’ but even better this time under the guise of Healthcare for Obesity. Since obesity has the virtue of being an actual problem, unlike global warming, they will probably gain traction w/this one (look at Bloomberg in NYC slapping very hefty fines on restaurants for using transfats and salt). She’s already earmarked billions and billions of dollars (which we don’t have) of taxpayers money for her new pet project for growing an Obese Government. She’s also lying through her teeth when claiming that ’1 in 3 American children are overweight or obese’. It’s patently obvious that figure is inflated and yet, the media hacks sit and nod thier heads in compliance with this lie – just as they’ve done w/’global cooling’ and now ‘global warming’. The extreme left will do anything and everything to steal taxpayer’s money and use it for their short term greed – they will destroy our future (speaking of ‘the children’!) – destroy freedom – destroy America and all in the name of ‘for our own good’.

  149. says

    Eddie, what about the mercury level in these bulbs? You do know that these reports are coming out now saying that these bulbs can be dangerous. Not only that but you really think that taking away the option to use what ever lighting source suits you and is not detrimental to anyone else, is anything other than a infringement on our liberties? I mean the truth is they are trying to BAN the light bulbs we have used for years with no ill effects. why is that? i myself am going to the dollar store and buying a couple hundred a month and making sure that i use what ever light source i i want to.

  150. says

    Oh and Eddie just so you know brother, WE ARE NOT IN THE LAND OF THE FREE! we are in a socialist dictatorial state and we wont be free till we cause a revolution my brother. grab your guns cuz they will be going door to door.

  151. says

    I see that Daisy is back again demonstrating her complete ignorance of ANYTHING and EVERYTHING. She knows better than all the scientists who say that Global Warming or better known as Global Environmental change is REAL. Remember that Lush Limbo is an entertainer and laughs all the way to the bank, have you seen the interview where he laughs at the idiots who believe what he says. So if that is where you get your information then I am sorry to say you are WRONG.
    Now who is raising the Health Care costs? Daisy if you have Health Care Insurance you may have noticed how your costs have gone up and the services provided have declined. It may come as a shock to you but it is the Capitalist Health Care Insurers who are doing this not Obama. Please explain how other developed countries can provide very good Health Care to ALL their citizens at half the cost of the Insurers in this country. Don’t tell me about the Canadians who come to the US for treatment it isn’t true. However what is true is that literally millions of Americans receive treatment in other countries because it is better and far cheaper.
    Of course I am sure that you have personal experience of the Health Care services available in other countries or are you just repeating the lies and garbage coming from the likes of Sarah Palin. Oh I hear that Sarah went to Russia for her Health Care because she could see Russia from her front door.
    When you know nothing about everything you should just shut up and stop making a fool of yourself.
    This is NOT a socialist administration, and Michele Obama is a very smart dedicated and hardworking lady, unlike you.
    As for the Billions of dollars you say she has earmarked for the war against bad food it pales into insignificance compared to the Billions of Dollars that George Bush earmarked for his phony wars. Where were you when that happened, George was such a coward that he hid all those expenditures and never even declared them to the people of this country. He did not have the money either he simply put it on the National Credit Card. Why don’t you scream about that.
    And what about all the GOP politicians who voted against the stimulus bill but are now having news conferences saying how they have now created thousands of jobs with that money. That is known as hypocrisy also known as LYING.

  152. says

    Eddie I am fed up trying to educate those who plainly do not have the intelligence to THINK about things instead of yelling and screaming about their rights and freedoms. If you will read some of my other posts you will see that I have explained that freedom does NOT mean you have the right to do ANYTHING you want. Doing anything your little heart desires is known as ANARCHY the exact opposite of freedom. Stop and think for a while please, the mark of a free and safe society is the existence of laws and responsibilities. Yes RESPONSIBILITY is the most important thing of all for without RESPONSIBILITY there is NO FREEDOM. Total freedom exists in places like Somalia where there are NO laws to tell you what to do. However you do need a small army armed to the teeth to defend those freedoms you cherish so much, in fact I hear on good authority that Somalia is the most popular retirement destination for members of the NRA. As for your obvious paranoia about the GOVERNMENT taking away your rights you should really get counciling you seem to see conspiracies everywhere.
    Now about the heat given off by incandescents being useful in the winter you seem to have forgotten that in the Summer that extra heat would not be welcome. Perhaps your paranoia made you forget that after Winter comes Summer and in the Summer the weather gets HOT. I am always struck by the fact that people such as yourself see only half of the story and forget totally about the other half.
    There is NO god given right for AMERICANS to use whatever kind of light they want. Should you be allowed to use leaded paint and gasoline or drive on the left hand side of the road or any of the many other rules that SENSIBLE FREE people accept as essential to a safe and happy life.
    Of course not. Give me these restrictions anytime rather than having the FREEDOM for any idiot to do whatever he seems to think is his right. As I have said that is NOT freedom it is ANARCHY.
    Go read some history then you will understand.

  153. Eddie says

    KEITH, it looks to me like the more u post, the more upset u become. why is that?? Mayb cuz we’re speaking out the truth?? Calm down there fella b4 u burst. KEITH, it amazes me that u believe all the garbage u hear on tv, and the things u read. have u ever thought that maybe the crap ur hearing about incandecents are harmful to the planet is bull shit. SURE, the government makes laws to ensure the safety for everybody. The examples ur giving about gasoline and all the other crap ur posting are poor examples. If incandecents were that harmful to the planet, why havent they banned them a long time ago?? they’ve been around for over 100 years and homeowners havent complained about them. The only ones complaining are communists such as urself who dont enjoy freedom. The only “HARM” these light bulbs do is sky rockets your light bill and again, i dont mind because i prefer the light it gives off. lol screw the government, im sticking with my incandecents. Mayb ur sick of ppl crying about their freedom but MOST american citizens such as myself enjoy our freedom. Mayb u rather have the govenment up your jock 24/7 and thats fine if thats what u want but MOST citizens such as myself will continue living the life style that we want just as long as nobodys harming anybody and theres no proof that incandecents are harming the planet or anybody. Thats just another poor excuse for congress trying to interfere with our life style. Maybe u outa move to canada. There, they have the cops knocking on ur door to make sure ur not using incandecents. Maybe you’l be happier there. I”m not harming anyone or anything by using incandecents. And again as i said, I’m the person paying for MY light bill, so i will decide what lightbulbs is suitable for me. When the government pays for my light, then they can decide, until then, they can kiss my ass. And i will continue to stock up until they’re gone.

    i see that me and a couple of others had posted something b4 about CFLs not working well in cold and refridgerators. Funny how you’ve been ignoring that. How do you suppose we should light are refridgerators with CFLs?? U do know that incandecents are needed in some of our appliances right? or again, are u just ignoring the FACTS. Could u imagine a flourecent light in ovens??? Wouldnt that be an interesting thing to see.

    For most of us living up north, any type of heat is always welcomed. Duhh KEITH, nobodys gona heat their homes in the summer. I just love how u TRY to post AT ppl instead to people trying to make them look stupid and make urself sound like u know everything. Well, if u really knew what u were talking about, almost all of the people posting would agree with what you’re saying. But it seems like thats just the total opposite. Whether u like it or not, most americans such as myself are sticking with old fashioned light bulbs because we like it. If u like shitty light in ur house, have a ball and enjoy them.

    And as for JOEY, u need to get back to ur history book, my friend. America does have laws and most of them are good laws. But banning something we’ve been using for a long time, thats not harming anything but mayb our light bills is something totally different. Whats next? mayb they should ban computers and the internet because of child molestors who are out there hitting on young children. So i guess we wont be able to post on youtube or on here anymore because of those sickos, and we’l all have to suffer now. Have a good one people.

  154. Eddie says

    JOEY, in response to your other comment, u made a good point. G.E. is still in the process of figuring out how to make energy efficient incandecents. they failed once but i read somewhere that they’re not giving up. until then, incandecent lovers should continue to stock up. we still have a few more years to go.

  155. Alex says

    KEITH, congress does make decision for us to ensure our safty and with freedom does come with responsibilty. I am all for saving the planet. Recycling cans, bottles etc etc. But this is freaking insane. We’re talking about a light bulb. The only harm that incadecents do is raise ur electricity bill. Eddie has a very good point. WE’re paying for our own electric bill so we should decide what light bulbs best suit us. Not the government. Fact of the matter is that flourecent bulbs dont work in all fixtures. Again, congress not thinking as usual. If CFLs and LEDs are so superior, consumers will buy them with out anybodys regulations. But why should they restrict consumers choice? Fact is, these flourcent light bulbs are not as good as ppl claim it is. I live in a building where they use flourcent lighting in a candle shaped bulb and many of them blow out quite often. i have a beautiful chandelier in my dining room. Most ppl would probably agree with me that chandeliers look nicer with incandecent bulbs. I am not gona use ugly ass flourcents on my chandelier just because the government THINKS its going to save the planet. KEITH, after reading ur posts, i’m wondering if you work for or with the idiots of congress. You are a communist! Maybe u outa move to Cuba where fidel castro will be up your ass 24/7 at every little thing u do. Oh and great news, there, nobody uses incandecents any more. Everyone there switched to flourecent lighting. If u want flourcent lights in your house, thats your choice. Its your house and you’re paying for your light bill. Just like if i wana use incandcents, i can and I will. Looks like i’l have to do what most ppl are doing and stock up.

  156. Mike says

    Will, there is nothing wrong with saving the planet and keeping it clean. I am all for it. But the only thing that incandecent light bulbs hurt is our electric bill. Maybe there are a few factors that you and your communists friends seem to always 4get. one of them is that CFLs dont work all in all fixtures such as refridgerators. Flourecent bulbs do very poorly in cold temperatures. If we dont have incandecents, how do u suppose we light our fridges? Mayb u wouldnt mind using a flashlight to get what u want for a mid night snack huh. Another factor is heat. Yes, we all know that incandecents produce more heat than light but here where im from, it gets cold in the winter. so any type of heat is welcomed, even if its from a light bulb plus i like the type of light that incandecents produce. CFLs produce shitty white light and many of them don’t last as long as your communist greenies says it does. I had one in my living room lamp and it only lasted 2 months. My girlfriend had one in her bed room and it lasted 8 months for her. I hate to break this to you but even after the ban (2014) 9 out of 10 people here in the U.S. will STILL use incandecents because we like the light it produces and also because we live in America which is the land of the free. Which means nobody will tell me how to light my house. If CFLs are so superior and good, then consumers will buy them. But to take away our freedom to choose is not the way to go. And it has been proven that the goverment has a very poor track record because of them choosing for us. if incandecents were so bad for the planet, they wouldnt be around as long as they have been (over 100 years) So before you use name calling comments, u should do some research of your own because from reading ur comments, ur the one making an ass out of urself making moronic comments.

  157. Keith Grove says

    Mike, you fascist heathen ignorant moron, stop calling people who disagree with you stupid names.
    Obviously the cold where you live has frozen up the few brain cells that constitute what for you passes as a brain. You seem to think that there is a vast communist conspiracy against you, this is a common fantasy for those who have your kind of mental handicap. Do you really believe that using incandescent bulbs will warm the frozen wastes of your homeland and where in the constitution of this free land does it say that you have the right to use such bulbs. I will help you here, the constitution makes NO MENTION of incandescent bulbs.
    As I have said many times “Freedom does NOT mean that you have the right to do ANYTHING your limited intellect desires”. the “RIGHT” to do anything is known as ANARCHY, go look that up in an encyclopedia. Then pack your bags and move to Somalia where there are NO restrictions on your “RIGHTS” and you can use the bulbs of your choice, assuming that you can find any electricity.
    I would much rather live in a free country where sensible people make sensible rules that benefit everyone. You would rather live in a country ruled by a mob who enforce their insane vision of freedom by screaming from the rooftops and threatening everyone with their little guns.
    You say that if incandescents where so bad why have they been around for a hundred years. Once again you show your total lack of understanding, lead used in paint and gasoline has been around for many years do you also think that leaded gasoline and lead based paint is NOT hazardous both to us and the planet. The naughty government has taken away our lead based paint which you apparently think is perfectly OK to use in a childs bedroom where the child can chew on it and get brain damage (did you have lead paint in your bedroom).
    Stop making a fool of yourself and go get an education, then stop buying cheap shoddy CFLs at Big Lots and buy some quality ones made by GE or PHILIPS.

  158. Mike says

    Keith, easy there old guy. Wouldnt want your blood pressure to sky rocket over comments and the truth that hurts you. Kind of funny how much of a hypocrite you are. You have nerve telling other people not to stoop down to name calling because they disagree with other comments, and yet, i’ve read in your other posts, you doing the same thing. Just because somebody doesnt agree with your “communists” thoughts. Just for your info, I dont take someone calling me an “ass” too well so yes, i will respond to it and i may not be nice about it. As always keith, you sound like a broken record player. “Pack your bags and go to Somalia ” I’m not going any where. YOU need to pack your bags up and move to Canada where you’l have the cops breathing down your neck constantly about not using incadecents. Why are u talking about lead paint and guns?? Stick with the subject buddy. I love it how communists like you get off the subject, trying to spin everything around to make urself look like you know what you’re talking about. Whether you like it or not, me and hundreds of people stocked up on hundreds of incandecent bulbs and thats what I’m using. And keith again i say, after the ban i can almost guarantee you that 90% of house holds will still use good old edison bulbs because this is the land of the free and they dont harm anybody but raise ur eletric bill a little. So you can stick with your lead paint and toxic mecury filled flourecents and have a ball. Good Day ;-)

    • Keith Grove says

      Mike I can’t believe just how un-intelligent you are, have you ever heard of the word IRONY? irony was what I was using to point out that you should not call people names just because they disagree with you. Of course if you went to an average High School you wouldn’t have learned about such things. I called you all those names just to MAKE A POINT.
      Now let me explain a few other things that you obviously do NOT understand. You are correct that the subject of these discussions is the phase out of Incandescent bulbs in the US. I will go slowly so that you can follow me.
      Firstly, some people yourself included object to this phase out because it violates some non existent right that allows all Americans to buy whatever kind of bulb they please.
      I have merely tried to point out that there is NO such right and that the phase out of incandescent will be very beneficial to the country in general.
      Other things besides bulbs have been phased out, ARE YOU AWARE OF THIS. Probably not because if you were then you would not be asking me why I am talking about Leaded paint and Leaded gasoline.
      Are you still with me? if I followed your LOGIC them Americans should have the right to buy Leaded paint and gasoline and the government should butt out.
      I have not heard any screaming for the restoration of these toxic products, banning them benefits the country just as banning incandescents will BENEFIT the country. Can you follow this.
      Now as to me being a communist, you obviously have NO concept what a communist is. You have probably heard some one some where use the term and have decided to co-opt it without having ANY idea what it means. I am a democrat who believes in the rule of law, you would seem to be a fascist and I do know what those are (note I said you appear to be)
      It is not I who needs to leave this country because of the incandescent bulb who ha. It is you who needs to leave as you are SOOOOO angry with the government for taking away your rights.
      If I sound like a broken record you may well be correct, but the reason for it is that people like yourself cannot or will not READ what I have said and think about it before reverting to you mindless rant on liberty and freedom.
      This IS the land of the free because I have the right to disagree and I like to live in a country where reasonable people can agree on reasonable rules that benefit everyone. Not just those who shout the loudest or wave their little guns.
      You sound like one of these so called patriotic militia members who shout about freedom and liberty but I strongly suspect that those ideals would not last very long if someone should be so unwise as to disagree with them.
      That is why you would love to live in Somalia where this NO pesky government to interfere with your exercise of your rights, real or imaginary.
      And what’s this about the police breathing down your neck in Canada. Who told you that little piece of fiction, Canada is not a police state far from it in many ways they enjoy and better standard of living and more freedoms than we do here. If you do not believe that then you probably believe all the lies about the Canadian Health system being something akin to concentration camps. Here those of us who can AFFORD health care are robbed of our savings by wealthy insurance companies who bribe our elected officials to look the other way.
      Dear dear me I sound like a broken record again.
      Look stop writing garbage, go and do some serious research for yourself. Don’t listen to the junk they churn out on the hate radio stations or Fox noise. I will let you into a secret people with intelligence do not believe any of that garbage it is intended to inflame the morons who can’t reason things out for themselves.
      So go buy your stock pile of incandescent bulbs if that will make you feel happy, do don’t seem to have any higher aspirations in your hum drum little life.
      I will enjoy my summer traveling in Europe and Canada going to the theater and listening to real music (classical concerts of course) with the money I made on the stock market. You see I got out of the market before it crashed unlike all the idiots who were listening to hate radio. I did my research I could see that the market could no sustain itself, I did a lot of THINKING and REASONING and RESEARCH.
      Send me an e-mail when you get to Somalia or whatever hovel you end up in. Get an education, think for yourself, do your own research, don’t believe anything you hear from hate radio or Fox Noise but above all THINK for yourself. And read the constitution BEFORE you start claiming rights that do not exist.

  159. Walker says

    There are other concerns. “Advertised” brightness for CFLs do not match actual incandescent brightness. A 60watt incandescent provides as much light as a 15W CFL, but 13w and 14w CFL are always (deceitfully) claimed to replace them. Where are the candelabra based CFLs? I have 28 candelabra base bulbs in my house, where I need them to support 16w CFL on dimmers, or I have to replace 7 light fixtures – probably $1200-1500 worth of replacement fixtures if I am lucky.
    Now add the costs of replacing the fixtures for all of the clear bulbs in my house, and you have another 4, then replace all of the enclosed fixtures, like ceiling dome lights, since you can’t run CFL in them – they overheat and burn out in DAYS, not years. So, I can buy 3 incandescent bulbs for $1 and put them in my ceiling fixture and have them last a year or more. But instead, I replace them with CFLs that are not as bright, and I will lose at least one $2 CFL a month due to overheating. That means in just one fixture, my annual cost is $1 for incandescent or $42 for CFL – BUT, wait, here it comes, I saved 87 cents worth of electricity for the year! what a bargain.
    Now I am replacing more than $7500 worth of light fixtures (if I buy on the cheap) to be able to replace my light bulbs with CFLs? In my 3000 sq ft house, there are a total of 4 light fixtures I would NOT have to replace. And, almost all of my lights are on dimmers, so I am either losing the flexibility of dimmers, or paying 5X the cost for a dimmable CFL.
    And what about the light in my garage door opener – that is subject to vibration and only stays on for 4 minutes at a time, or for the light on the landing on my stairs, that is on only when I go up or down the stairs – maybe 30 seconds at a time? Or the light in my bathroom – which is ONLY on for more than a few minutes when I shower. It is a proven fact that CFLs take several minutes to reach full light, and they work best when left on for longer amounts of time. You flip them on and off regularly and you shorten their life to months, weeks, and even days, meaning you are just throwing out more hazardous waste.
    Now, in Minnesota winters when it is under freezing for over 4 months of the year, how many CFLs work when it is that cold? So, I cannot have any external lights, front door light, safety lights on the front of my house or garage? Freezer light bulbs, refrigerator lightbulbs, and the minifixtures that use other small/appliance bulbs – there are no CFLs that work in these either because of the temperature requirements or because of the size – you just cannot make a CFL as small as a mini-incandescant.
    How long do I have to burn all the new CFLs in those new light fixtures to make up for the cost of replacements? Not in my lifetime, or that of my children. So if I am out THOUSANDS of dollars by converting, how exactly is this beneficial to me???

  160. Keith says

    Walker, I have not read your post in detail but there is one statement that I must comment on. You have $7500 worth of light fixtures in a 3000 sqft. house!!!!!
    I have a very nice 4000 sqft house with very good quality light fixtures that cost nowhere near $7500, are yours all gold plated or real gold. We have lights from Pottery Barn, Restoration Hardware, Fergusons and Expo, admittedly these are not THEEE most chic stores but if you live in a house of ONLY 3000 sqft it isn’t worth buying lights from Neiman Marcus or Harrods.

  161. Ray says

    leds are probably going to replace cfls soon but i still like incandecent bulbs. I only use cfls in places where i use the light most of the time and in some places i use incandecents. i also have an old fashion circular flourecent light in my kitchen. I hope they dont ban the circular or even the tube flourecent lights because i dont think they are a waste of energy. how long will they be around? If anybody knows plz let me know. Thank you!

  162. Daisy says

    Keith brags: “I have a very nice 4000 sqft house with very good quality light fixtures that cost nowhere near $7500, are yours all gold plated or real gold.”

    Well, Keith, my house is over 5000 sq feet. In my kitchen alone, I have over $10,000 worth of lighting. And not one single CFL anywhere, nor will there ever be one.

    As for you setting yourself up not only as the lightbulb environmental police, but now the decorating police, don’t bother. Some of us just have better taste than you – no matter the square footage of our living space. And the price of freedom? Incalculable.

  163. Steven says

    You couldnt pay me all the money in the world, to use cfl light bulbs. No matter what anybody says, I will never switch to flourecent light bulbs. That’s like government choosing what type of clothing i should wear. This country would be better off if the government would back off a little. If flourecent lights are so superior, people will buy them. But dont take away my choice on what I can buy. We have been using incandecent light bulbs for over 100 years. If incandecents were that “BAD FOR THE P LANET” then why did it take over 100 years for anybody to address the issue? I think its just another poor excuse for congress wanting to meddle in everybodys lives. I honestly think that they’re not going to solve anything when the ban year comes because most people prefer incandecents over cfls just like i do which means that most people will still use them after 2014. So instead of them being in stores, they will be in peoples homes. So what has the government solved? Absolutly nothing!!! So I will too, do what most people are doing and begin to start buying boxes of edison bulbs every week. By the time the ban period comes, i will have hundreds of boxes. So screw the government!

  164. Keith says

    I have never heard such a bunch of spoiled brats screaming over something as simple, obvious and necessary as changing light bulbs.
    You are a bunch of modern day Luddites, I am sure that when we changed from candles to gas lights you would have been screaming about the cost of the gas filaments over the cost of candles. And as for the government (or big business) putting DANGEROUS HIGHLY INFLAMMABLE GAS into your homes, OMG you would probably have had apoplexy. Then when we changed from gaslight to electric light you would have rioted again, now the government was making you use DANGEROUS HIGH VOLTAGE ELECTRICITY. Now you are doing the same again, for heavens sake calm down this isn’t the end of the world. Some of you are so out of control one would think that the big scary government was putting surveillance devices in each CFL as well as electronic trackers in the metallic stripes of dollar bills. I am going to keep a watchful eye out for the black helicopters.
    I apologise to Daisy for bragging about my house (I said it was NICE which apparently is BRAGGING), you people need to get lives.
    Yes I do recommend that you all move to Somalia for all the reasons I have already stated. Instead of sneering at me and calling me a socialist or communist please explain in detail why my advice is so WRONG.
    In Somalia there are NO governmental restrictions on your liberty.
    You can do what you like and use all the incandescents you wish.
    You can carry around your little guns with no policemen watching over your shoulders.
    Somalia sounds like PARADISE for all you liberty loving anarchists.
    Now please explain to me why you think I am wrong, if you still insist on calling me names then it just proves how empty and pathetic your reasoning is.
    Most importantly look up the meaning of such words as Communist, Socialist, Anarchist etc. before using them. None of you seem to know the meaning of these words, but you love to throw them around. I suppose that if you can’t formulate a coherent argument then throwing around these words and claiming all kinds of RIGHTS that DO NOT EXIST is all that is left for you

  165. Daisy says

    Keith, I suggest you look up the word freedom. Furthermore, I suggest you read the U.S. Constitution; it’s edifying.

    • Keith says

      Here we go again Daisy, I do know the meaning of freedom but what you don’t know is that the word “freedom” is different from the FREEDOM we enjoy as a FREE DEMOCRATIC society. The word “freedom” implies that we have the freedom do do ANYTHING we please. Even you must understand that no society could possibly exist with such a ridiculously dangerous concept. Therefore the “freedom” we enjoy has certain limitations, you are not “free” to kill anyone, you are not “free” to simply take (steal) anyone’s property, you are not free to “use or squander” precious resources that could endanger us all, and the list goes on.
      Do I have to repeat myself again and again, your simplistic view of “freedom” is NOT FREEDOM, it is ANARCHY which is the exact opposite of what any intelligent person would consider to be a “free” society.
      Now as to the constitution, nowhere in the constitution does there exist the right that you seem to yearn for, that is the freedom to do anything you want to do. To the contrary the constitution envisages a society that exists within defined rules that make the Liberty of everyone possible.
      If you don’t understand this simple yet oh so important concept then I am truly sorry for you. Perhaps you should go and join one of these so called patriotic militias who wave the flag and the constitution and their guns. If you do take some advice, NEVER DISAGREE WITH THEM. If you do you will very quickly find out that the “freedoms” you now take for granted will disappear very quickly, you will find that “free speech” is a foreign concept to THESE patriots. Their idea of freedom is to threaten or terrorize or shoot anyone who does not fall completely under their control. The up side of these groups is that you will probably be able to use as many incandescent bulbs as you wish.
      Freedom and the free society that we cherish is NOT FREE, that is – not your concept of FREEDOM. Heaven protect us from the FREEDOM loving FLAG waving CONSTITUTION quoting GUN toting patriot. Believe me they couldn’t care one whit about your rights and your freedom

  166. Ray says

    Keith do u know if they are going to make leds with the same color temperature as incandecent light bulbs? And as far as the circular flourecent bulbs, are those going to be around for a long time?? I like the old fashi0ned flourecent tubes and circular lights. Let me know when u get the chance. thanks

  167. says

    I have a neurological condition which causes me to feel severe pain, hallucinate, and pass out under both old style fluorescents and CFLs. Incandescents and halogen lights are the only lights I’m able to use in my house at the moment. If incandescents are phased out, I will be forced to live in the dark.

    • Keith Grove says

      What is the name of this neurological condition? I know some doctors who are confused by these symptoms, they say that they are unfamiliar with this. However if you can give me a name I am sure they will do some research.
      You do not however have to live in the dark, have you considered gas lights or oil lights or even candles. In the early 20th century when electric light began to replace gas many people said that they were disturbed by the 60 cycle flicker of incandescent bulbs. Many people like you said that they could not tolerate electric lights and were afraid that they also would have to live in the dark. However as you can see those concerns went away and everyone has been able to get used to incandescents.
      I hope the same will happen with you, this situation is anything but unique if you look back at history every major change in technology has had its critics who could not or would not change. But as we can see these changes did not result in catastrophe, if we had not made these changes then we would still be living in caves and rubbing sticks together to create fire.
      With this condition of yours how do you get around? everywhere in the nations fluorescent light are used from supermarkets to shopping malls from residential homes to office blocks from bus stations to airports. I don’t see how you can exist under these conditions you couldn’t even go to McDonalds at night for a hamburger.
      Good luck.

  168. Jose says

    somehow i seriously doubt that incandecents will totally phase out. 1st off, even if after 2014 they do get phased out, many ppl will have stocked up and still keep them around in their homes. why? Because they give off better light quality. i dont mind congress encouraging us to switch but for them to foce it on us is not right and they force it on us because they know that MOST people hate cfls. We as consumers have a right to choose what light bulb to use. To me, cfl lighting is horrible and on top of that, its made in China. These “Greenies” need to cut it out with this nonsense already. i guess i’l have to do what many ppl are doing and just stock up on edison bulbs.

  169. Ralph says

    Just found out about the incandecent bulb ban a few days ago. Looks like I will be stocking up on good old Edison bulbs. CFLs dont work in all places. There are places where incandecents are needed. All this “Green” talk sounds like a scam to me. I’m not gona point names out but for the people who are for the ban, it amazes me how brain washed they are on the green scams that are going on. Incandecent bulbs have nothing to do with climate change morons! Wake up and smell the coffee! This is just another poor excuse for congress wanting to meddle in other peoples lives. If cfls are that good, let consumers decide that for themselves. Instead, they wana ban incandecents and FORCE us to use cfls, cuz they know that MOST people such as myself, dont like cfls. Banning something cuz someone has a BELIEF that cfls will save the planet is just pure stupidity. If anything, cfls will probably harm the planet with all the toxic shit thats in it. And believe me, they are toxic. I have heard of people getting sick from accidently breaking a cfl. I got proof of that from doctors telling me about having patients visiting them telling them they’re sick from the mercury in those bulbs. Unless the doctor was lying, then thats proof enough that cfls can be toxic if not properly disposed after it breaks. For years, they have been saying that CFLs will improve, and they still give off shitty, urine colored light. On top of that, they’re made from China. Well, I am paying for my electric bill, so i will decide what bulbs to use, thank you very much. I will use Edison bulbs for ever.

    • Keith says

      So you just found out about it, when most people have known about it for several years. One of the hallmarks of morons is that they are SO UNINFORMED, another hallmark is that they DON”T BELIEVE what almost everyone else KNOWS to be the truth. Yet another sign is that they profess to know more than almost every group of climate scientists in the world. Climate scientists have been working on the problem for years and yet the know it all MORONS DON”T BELIEVE IT. Do these morons have any EVIDENCE or PEER REVIEWED SCIENTIFIC STUDIES to back up there assertions? OF COURSE NOT, they probably don’t even understand what a peer reviewed study is.
      Are the incandescent bulbs directly causing global climate change, NO, they are causing it INDIRECTLY because these bulbs are SOOOO inefficient they require more and more electric power which means more and more power plants which means more and more CO2 which means more and more GLOBAL CLIMATE CHANGE.
      Can CFLs poison us because they contain Mercury, YES, however you are probably too ignorant to know that millions upon millions of thermostats that have been in our homes for upwards of 100 years also contain significant amounts of MERCURY.
      WHY HAVE YOU NOT BEEN SCREAMING ABOUT THAT, ask the same doctors that you got the evidence from about that. They will tell you that Mercury from thermostats can be even more poisonous than from CFLs .
      You don’t want government to INTERFERE in your life, your lack of intelligence may be the result of lead poisoning in the house you grew up in. Due to the efforts of INTERFERING government bureaucrats lead has been banned from many products that have been poisoning us. They had to fight the manufacturers of these products who would much rather have continued to sell those products WITH THE LEAD STILL IN THEM.
      STOP WASTING OUR TIME WITH YOUR LUDICROUS COMMENTS, GO GET AN EDUCATION THEN START READING AND IN ABOUT 20 YEARS YOU MAY UNDERSTAND. UNTIL THEN —- SHUT UP.

      • Ralph says

        Keith, u sound pretty angry, old man. Sometimes I wonder if you work for the “Green Police”. All u do is post and post and the only thing that comes out of what ur saying is absolutly NOTHING. Whether you wana believe it or not, they are FORCING us to use cfls because they know that MOST people such as myself, will never use ugly, shit colored flourecent light. They are not as efficient as people say they are and they dont last as long as alot of u moronic greenies say they do. I live in a building where its ALL cfl lighting, and every 3 weeks or a month, one of them burns out. Thats proof enough that they dont last long. If cfls are so good, why not let consumers decide if they wana buy them?? I dont know if ur old age has eaten ur brain but there are places where incandecents are needed. Kinda funny how i mentioned that and u seem it ignore it. For example, do u know that CFLs do poorly in cold? So how do u figure we light our refridgerators once the ban takes place. U keep saying that “THERES NO RIGHT TO OWN INCANDECENT LIGHT BULBS” . Just like theres no right to own cars because they pollute the air. So maybe we outa ride bikes to get to where ever we need to go. We wont get very far but hey, at least the air will be cleaner right? All the name calling that u do, clearly shows how miserable you are and i just sit back and laugh at ur bogus and ignorant comments. when someone speaks the truth, you simply can’t handle it. Well, you can stay depressed with ur depressing, ugly CFLs and i will continue to enjoy my life buying the light bulbs I WANT. Maybe i should watch what i say around u cuz again, ur probably the green police and i may get arrested for having the hundreds of boxes of incandecents that i have stocked up. Bottom line is this, i will use edison bulbs for ever just like millions of other ppl. Good day!

  170. Michael says

    I received my Master of Science Degree in Environmenyal Systems Engineering in 1973. I have spent the past 37 years working in the environmental field by designing wastewater treatment systems, industrial air filter systems and ground water cleanup systems. During the decade of the 1970′s we were told of the impending ” Ice Age ” .

    The former USSR had a plan to use low level nuclear bombs to divert rivers in order to melt some of their glaciers. Hell – NASA had a plan to drop soot over the North Pole in order to melt “our” glaciers. FRIGGIN IDIOTS !

    So now Iam to believe that all the info we studied in the 1970′s was wrong and that global warming is the ” cause du jour” . Mr. Spock himself had a TV series called ” In search of …” In 1978 he hosted a three part series documenting the coming Ice Age. Google it on the internet. Quite amazing that the public gets subjected to all these ” therories” and we are just supposed to roll over and play dead.

    Not again, thank you.

    Al Gore and his global warming minions are just pimps and Mother Earth is their whore.

    • Keith says

      Who are you calling an idiot? perhaps you should look in a mirror. When you were receiving your degree in the seventies perhaps you should also have taken lessons in common sense and how to use that moribund organ between your ears to evaluate all these “THINGS” you were being told. Who told you all these “THINGS” ? Did you also believe all the ads you saw on TV such as Earl Scheib who could “paint any car any color for $29.99″. Sounds like you believed everything “THEY” told you. Just like a good little conservative robot.
      Now that we have indisputable scientific evidence of global change you suddenly DO NOT BELIEVE IT. Where do you get this information from? Glen Beck or Flush Lumber or the RNC.
      Do you honestly think those morons are interested in reality or adding dollars to their bank accounts. I have very good news for you, if you send me a check for $1,000 to cover admin. costs I will send you the winning ticket to the next Superball Lottery.
      Do you believe that?
      Now to be serious can you site even one credible, published, peer reviewed research paper that disputes the fact that global climate change is happening.
      Please let me have all the details, if you cannot do this then save us all a lot of heartburn and SHUT UP.

      • Ralph says

        Keith sounds to me like you havent been taking your medication. Its amazing how my comments causes your blood pressure to rise. I find it incredible that you get bent out of shape when people speak FACTs and whats even more incredible is how upset you get when people call you names when in fact, you do the same thing in almost ALL the comments u have made. You are a miserable old man as well as a hypocrite. I think i really need to be careful what i say to you cuz i wouldnt doubt it if you worked for the “Green Police”. Why would u criticize anybody for believing things that they’ve heard from anywhere when u do the same thing. You have this crazy belief that using CFLs will help climate change. WRONG!!! Climate change will happen regardless of steps that we take, even if it means using ONLY CFLs. Climate change has been happening since the beginning of time and it will ALWAYS happen. (Let me know when I’m outa line Mr. Green Police). Funny how you ignore some of the things that have been addressed from me and a few other posts. If incandecents are banned, how do u suppose we light our refridgerators?? Lets see if u can answer that big shot. If u were so smart, u would know that CFLs dont work well in cold. Looks like I’l have to use a flash light when i want a mid night snack. You do know that there places in ur house where CFLs dont work and where incandecents are needed rite?? Do u really think that I’m gona spend thousands of bucks replacing fixtures to use shitty cfls??? NEVER!! You’re too stupid to realize that government is FORCING us to use cfls because they know that most ppl , like me, still prefer incandecents and its killing u. i can bet u any money that even in 50 years from today, Most ppl will still be using edison bulbs because nobody is gona force us to use ugly yellow colored CFLs. So u can stick with ur toxic cfls and u know what u can do with them after that. next time u post, make sure you take that medicine and dont O.D on it.

        • Keith says

          Oh! dear Ralph were do I start, well for a beginning I did not start the name calling I was the one on the receiving of all the insults when these dialogs started. Unfortunately I gave in to temptation and started using the same tactic.
          Your spelling and grammar is appalling did you go to a normal school or were you home schooled.
          Now try and use some common sense and start to THINK, you seem to have a fixation concerning government conspiracies. Just give me ONE rational (note I said RATIONAL) reason as to why the government is trying to force you NOT to use incandescent bulbs. For crying out loud please give me just ONE reason.
          When lead was banned from gasoline the same lunatics started screaming about their rights and vowing to stockpile leaded gas so that they could continue to use it instead of UN-LEADED gas. They actually claimed that their cars ran better and more efficiently on leaded gas, when was the last time YOU heard from those cretins?
          NO I am not a member of the Green Police and why are you also fixated on AGE, you have more hang ups than a Dry Cleaner.
          I asked you to cite just ONE scientific report that refutes Global Climate Change, I assume that you cannot find one (hint there are none). Then you accuse me of ignoring FACTS, WHAT FACTS? I see NO FACTS in your rant it is just a rant.
          Have you been chewing leaded paint again or are you out off your medication.
          Now back to some real facts:
          Yes Climate change has been going on since the birth of the Earth on that fact you are CORRECT. However what you forgot or ignored is that Climate Change is occurring at a faster rate than EVER BEFORE. That is the whole point, gradual climate change enables the natural processes of the Earth to adjust without catastrophic consequences.
          As for the subject of these discussions the much maligned CFLs.
          You are obviously NOT AWARE that ALL fluorescent lights now come in various colors or frequencies to suit the needs of almost everyone. You can even get DIMMABLE fluorescent lights now as well as fluorescent lights specifically designed to work inLOW TEMPERATURES and they will work in your refrigerator.
          While we are on the subject you mentioned a flash light, flash lights with INCANDESCENT bulbs are disappearing fast you had better stock up on these also. Some of the early LEDs produced pretty lousy color but the ones I have purchased recently give a very natural light.
          I think that I have demolished just about every objection your raised in your response.
          Of course if you knew how to use your computer or the reference section of your local library you could have checked these facts for yourself. Instead you just make yourself look more and more FOOLISH.
          I do hope you have checked your house for any thermostats that contain MERCURY, it seems that you are very concerned about this particular pollutant.
          Also be very careful about ANY building you go into as there may also be thermostats there that contain MERCURY. Mercury based thermostats are EVERYWHERE and don’t forget BAROMETERS. Look up a device called a FORTIN BAROMETER it contains a small bath of MERCURY that is open to the atmosphere and they are everywhere.
          As for my blood pressure, you are correct your comments do cause it to rise but don’t worry too much it is well under control. It is just that I am saddened that there are still ignorant people who have not the slightest ideas what they are talking about. Here we are in the information age but you seem to have the mentality of a buffoon.
          You NEVER address any of the points that I raise, you just attack attack attack.
          Well little man I advise you to take your ritalin and get a good nights sleep and then SHUT UP.

          • Alex says

            I love it how bent out of shape you get when people post what you dont wana read. Then you complain like a little girl about people attacking you. Maybe if you didn’t stoop to name calling, nobody would ATTACK you. Everybody has different opionions and most of us disagree with your views. Take it like a man and deal with it instead of whinning like a kid. I dont know what kind of cfls you have in your house, but the ones i had don’t last as long as people say it does. I also know people who used cfls and again, theirs didnt last long either. Also where i work at, they had switched over from using incandescent floods, to flourecent lighting and twice a month, those flourecent bulbs burn out. Thats just ONE way i know that you and your green friends and are bull shitters. They last almost just as long as ur standard incandescents. The fact that you’re so brain washed into believing a FICTION story about cfls saving the planet shows how little your brain is. Or then again, you’re probably just another religious nut case thinking that the planet will be much cleaner if we switch to CFLs. Why would i use shitty light just because all you religious nut jobs think that its cleaner light???? Sorry to break this to you my friend but most us have taste and I will not use CFLs for as long as i live. I think that you’ve had bad experiences with incandecent bulbs or u probably just dont like them. thats fine. Everyone has different taste. Now, you had stated that cfls are made in different colors. On that statement, you are right, however, the light quality that cfls have will never come close to having the NICER light quality that incandecents have, no matter how hard they try to improve them. Notice how they’ve been TRYING to improve the light quality of cfls and they’re STILL shitty. And they do it because they know that 8 out of 10 people will ALWAYS prefer edison bulbs over flourecents. You can never get the same light quality from a cfl that an incandescent has no matter how hard u try. Its impossible. The only flourecent lights that i’l use are the old skool circular lights or the tubes. Not cfls.
            Now you wana talk about saving the planet, how about we ban vehicles such as cars buses and even trains. In new york city, you got elevated subways that run all over the city. maybe they should ban them because they release tons of toxic shit into our atmosphere. lets all walk to our destinations or ride bikes. We will be sore after we get to where we need to go but HEY we’re saving the planet. You’d probably get a heart attack if u came to my house cuz thru out my entire house, im using incandescents with 100 watts. And i have over 400 boxes of incandescents stored up in my closet and I’m still stocking up.

            I advice you take a look at this video. This is about a lady who caught rashes using CFLs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x6LNTdMVaU&feature=related

            Make sure you take ur mediciation b4 you post back because I’m sure that you’re about to go crazy AGAIN and start calling names.

      • darren says

        KEITH, u entertain me with ur posts. it gives me great pleasure to watch you go crazy. u are a typical liberal. when someone’s views are different from yours, ur quick to tell people to shut up. why dont YOU shut up. you’re telling ppl that they believe everything they hear and yet ur the moron who believes that global warming is happening. Where did u get that info from and since when did u become Mr. Scientist?? if global warming is here, then why did it snow in new orleans last year???? Why did parts of Florida have record low temperatures last year?? By the way, the temperature in florida was low enough to destroy crops AND there were snow flakes recorded off the coast of West Palm Beach, Florida. Face it, MOST people will not fall for ur GREEN scams. CFLs suck, LEDs suck. if u actually believe that an incandecent bulb is contributing to climate change, then u need to get ur head examined. You and all your green pals are a bunch of eco nut cases. seems to me like ur not proud of ur house. amazing how u would make ur home look like the inside of an office or an E.R. hospital room for a belief that cfl bulb will save the planet. Maybe to piss u off further, i outa buy more edison bulbs and leave the lights on 24/7. what are u gona do, Call the light bulb police on me???

        Maybe if u did some more research instead of whinning, u would know the real deal. Read carefully old man so that u don’t make more of a fool of urself than u already have. Now, not all incandescents are being phased out. Anything below 40 watts (light bulbs for decoration purposes), above 100 watts, incandescent flood lamps, appliance lights, rough surfing lights and colored incandescents bulbs are not included in the ban. They are even making halogen bulbs which are incandescents that are as much as 50% energy efficient AND they are already in the market. My girlfriend lives in a building that had compact flourecent lights at one time, once halogen bulbs came out, the owner replaced them with Halogen bulbs. (Dont get a heart attack yet)
        Keith, one of the posts that i read, u said that cfls are improving. If that’s really the case, millions of ppl would not be making a fast dash to stores to stock up on edison bulbs. And if cfls were really improving, congress would let consumers make up their own minds if they wana buy them or not. Not force it on us. I can bet u any money that if they were gona ban CFLs, not many ppl would give a shit. Except for you and your mentally disturbed green friends. You and ur eco nut job family members feel threatened that most ppl will still prefer edison bulbs. Thats why they’re trying so hard to tell ppl to use them.
        Sorry buddy but i will NEVER use a cfl in my life. the lighting quality is poor, gloomy and it takes forever to warm up. Call the light bulb police on me now. maybe then u’l feel better.

  171. Ranman92509 says

    I have been reading online and I have seen people stand up for mercury saying that exposure for pregnant women and children is harmless. They suggest that short term exposure is not a problem. These are the same people that say that cigarette smoke is a super toxin. They suggest that short term infrequent exposure is a death sentence. There is no proof that cigarette smoke is that bad. These commercials on tv make smoke look like radiation that will melt your brain with just one small exposure. To me this incandescent thing looks more like propaganda based on the opinions of people who don’t know anything besides what al gore and the Disney channel feed them.

  172. Ranman92509 says

    Hea keith, the mercury switches in ac units are designed to last a life time and don’t to be replaced like CFLs. Besides that, they are secured behind the face plate of the thermostat avoiding breakage. What about the migraine headaches and eye strain people like me suffer from CFLs?

  173. Raplh says

    No matter how u slice it, even after the ban, many ppl will still use edison bulbs because we like the light quality. So the ban is pretty much useless. It’s causing ppl to stock up. CFLs have been around for a long time now and they’ve been saying that the light quality would improve and its still shitty. If u like CFLs, then u can have a ball with them.
    I dont have to do any research on anything because i already know that the ban is stupid. I am more than willing to do what ever it takes to save the planet such as recycling bottles, just like the law here in new jersey requires us to do so. I have no problem with doing that. But to ban something that we use in our homes?? Especially since I’M the one paying for my light bill. Anybody who pays for their light bill is entitled to use any kind of bulbs in their house they want. The only “bad” thing they do is to raise ur bill but I can afford it. The only way that I will use CFLs is if they call the green police telling me i need to get rid of edison bulbs or i will get arrested. Other than that, you and the government and kiss my ass. its obvious that they’re banning these bulbs for the simple fact that MOST people, like me,still prefer edison bulbs. I am kinda tempted to make a video, post it on youtube and show u the hundreds of boxes of incandescents that i have. But then again you may catch heart attack if i did that, so i will go easy on you.
    Have fun with ur CFLs and the shitty light it produces. And as far as telling me to SHUT UP, again, that proves how angry u are at life. Again, make sure the medication that you’re taking is working for u.

  174. Daisy says

    Ralph,
    re: “Its amazing how my comments causes your blood pressure to rise.”

    Keith is as amusing to watch as a school of pirañas. He cannot bear opinions other than his own; is thoroughly brainwashed on the subject of ‘manufactured by mankind and animal emissions’ global warming; dismisses freedom as too messy to be left to ordinary citizens — and — he has seriously lousy taste in lighting. He’s been extruded from socialized government schools like so much plastic tubing.

    Warning: Don’t give him too much attention, he has a way of quickly becoming exhausting.

    • Alex says

      Daisy, All we can do is just stock up on edison bulbs. you’re aboslutly right. Keith has lousy taste in lighting. He is a miserable man which is why he gets so bent outa shape when we disagree with his views. thats why he prefers using ugly depressing lighting because hes a depressed old man. u can tell by the way he posts…lol…. Just like you and most people, i am proud of my home which means that i would rather come home to warm and pleasent lighting.

    • Alex says

      DAISY, i couldnt agree with you more. Its very entertaining to watch KEITH post garbage, its almost like watching a movie with the words on the bottom of ur screen. Anyway, the Good news for us incandescent lovers is that they’re in the process of making energy efficiant incandescents bulbs and to my thinking, these will most likely kick those ugly cfls to the curb once and for all. i havent tried using them yet but i probably will once the ban takes into effect. I heard that these bulbs are suppose to give out the same exact color as the edison bulb, so you wont be able to tell the difference. Only difference u’l see is that there will be a small capcil ( I think i spelled it wrong…lol) on the bottom of the bulb that wont warm up the bulb on the bottom too much but it will still be warm light that we’re used to seeing from the old traditional bulbs. Heres a video of the energy efficiant bulbs that are suppose to come out very soon. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fFDDarP3pE

      Now, just in case these green morons decide not to bring these new energy efficient incandescents to the market, i suggest u keep stocking up. you just never know. Also from what i heard, the incandescents that are not part of the ban are the bulbs lower than 40 watts, higher than 100 watts, appliance lights, flood lights and rough service lights. Hopefully all this is true because i just REFUSE to use ugly flourecent bulbs in my house. But from what i’ve read and from what i’ve seen in this video, i think these energy efficiant incandescents will make it to the market.

  175. Ralph says

    no KEITH, why don’t you SHUT UP. U’ve said before that theres no RIGHT to own edison bulbs. And i’m saying that it doesnt say anywhere in the U.S. constitution where govermnent can control the choice of light bulbs that Americans want in their house. you’re so concerned about me attacking at ur posts then maybe u outa stop insulting people when they disagree with ur views. then maybe i’l consider it. Whether u like it or not, even after 2014, more ppl will STILL use incandscent bulbs cuz unlike YOU, we have taste. i’ve stated this b4 and i’l say it again, when the government pays my light bill, then they can choose what bulbs i use for my house. Until then, i will still use edison bulbs. I’m seriously considering making a youtube video of all the 80 and 100watt light bulbs i have in my house but i dont want to be that cruel because u might just catch another titty attack. You need to understand this, even if Edison bulbs disappear from store shelves in 2014, its just going to end up in our homes. So the government has solved NOTHING. i really think do work for the GREEN POLICE. Or ur probably just itching to call the green police and have me locked up for using “NORMAL BULBS” rather than toxic, pissed colored light. Amazing how you get so defensive when people speak THE TRUTH and u cant seem to handle it. u can bark all u want buddy because you, nor you’re moronic green friends will NEVER convince me to use a CFL. the day u break a CFL and u have toxic shit running down your blood stream, dont say i didnt warn u.

  176. Jose says

    cfls have been around for a good number of years now (probably since the beginning of the 1990s) and they have tried to make them the same exact warm temperature and color as the incandescents simply because most people still prefer incandescents over flourecent lights In my opinion, cfls or even leds will never even come close to having the nice light quality that incandescents have. cfl light bulbs give off horrible light quality and i dont think that its any of the government’s business the type of light we use. if these moron greenies would stop meddling in peoples lives, this country would be much better off. I am amazed at “Keith” who is actually for the ban. He doesnt realize that he’s too brain washed on what he hears on the disney channel or reads on the ads that he sees on buses. If hes not brain washed, then he must be working as a greenie cop. Incandescents dont hurt anybody except maybe increase ur light bill a little but i can afford it. Not only do cfls give off ugly lighting but even the appearence is ugly. who the hell in their right minds would want an ugly swirly object screwed into their light sockets?? Not me! Someone in here had mentioned that a cfl bulb doesnt work in all places of your house which is absolutly true. There are places in ur home where you have no choice but to use incandescents OR be in the dark. I am not going through the trouble of spending my hard earned cash on replacing my light sockets just to have ugly pissed colored, toxic light in my house. So they can ban away all they want. I have over 600 boxes of incandescent bulbs in my closet and im still stocking until the ban date.

    Keith, all the name calling u do shows how childish you are. You complain about others attacking you like a little girl and yet, YOU’re the one who attacks on others when they disagree with what you’re saying and i think its safe to say that MOST people would disagree with u and your views of this matter. Tough it out and take it like a man. We are only disgussing an issue, not battling. Anyway, nothing that you post will ever convince me to get rid of edison bulbs. Now this is just my opionion but if ur house is lit by ONLY flourecent bulbs, then YES, you have no taste. But hey, its ur house and if prefer toxic bulbs in ur house, god bless u. Face it, most people would rather live in a country where they have a bit of freedom. Sure, freedom doesnt mean doing ANYTHING u want that’s going to hurt the next person. But banning a light bulb because of some stupid scientific myth?? thats just insane. If we’re gona talk about whats “harmful” to our planet, maybe we outa ban vehicles and do what a lot of the asian countries are doing. Ride bikes. After all, bicycles do not dirty the enviornment but all the cars, trucks buses and trains do. So i guess we would all have a great workout while going to our destination. Or maybe we outa ban airplanes. I guess whoever wants to take a vacation will have to BIKE to their vacation spot. We would have incredibly sore legs but hey, at least we wont have any planes, cars, buses and trains because they are so “harmful” to our planet.

  177. David R. Dayton says

    The above comments regarding the replacement of incandescent lamps are interesting. The requirement for improving the energy efficiency by 25-35% is quite possible based on known technology. The HIR lamp mentioned (65 watt low beam headlight lamp) increases the lumens by 80%. If used to decrease the energy, the reduction would be about 40%. As mentioned, this technology can not be applied to all types of incandescent lamps.

  178. Bob Jahanson says

    Fluorescent bulbs have too many problems and they contain mercury. That is why they are illegal to produce in the United States. In my opinion, LED lights are the new future. They use a lot less energy, can be dim-able, they are near impossible to break and if they do, there is no special procedure for cleaning them up. For all those hippies that are jumping on the band-wagon saying that they are better for the environment, you need to wake the fuck up! More energy is required to produce a cfl bulb than an incandescent one and disposing them will wreak havoc on our ecosystem. Also, by making this a law, we are outsourcing jobs to China because we can not make cfl bulbs in the US.

  179. Joe says

    I will have serious issues if it becomes impossible to continue to get incandescents since CFLs give me serious migraines. It’s already a serious hindrance in the workplace (luckily I have an office where we have a LOT of natural daylighting and they allow me to use an incandescent lamp instead of the overhead fluorescents) but I refuse to use them in my home except in spaces where I need bright light but do not spend a lot of time (porch lights, garage, etc.). Besides the migraines, I wouldn’t want them in my home anyway because of the terrible quality of light so I seriously hope they come up with some new solutions like others have mentioned in their comments. I also wonder what will happen with all of those lamps and sconces that take small candelabra incandescent bulbs since there is currently no CFL options for those?

    Oh, and PS to the author, halogen bulbs technically ARE incandescent bulbs so to say that they are trying to phase out incandescents in favor of halogens does not make sense.

  180. John says

    I read in the Wall Street Journal a while ago that 60% of greenhouse gases come from electricity production, while only 20% come from transportation.

    While a Prius may be eco-cool, the real way to help the enviornment is focusing on electricity – I pay more to have a “green” electricity supply, and I am trying to transition to LED lights…

  181. bill says

    Are you people seriously stocking up on hundreds of light bulbs? Thats probably the most rediculous thing I’ve ever heard of. I’ve used CFL’s for years and by taking a long time to come on you must mean the amount of time it takes you to flip the switch. Also Cfl lights are white now unless you go out and specifically buy a yellow colored one. These lights aren’t from the 60′s although it sounds like most people on here havn’t seen a flourescent light since then. Things change and you just have to accept it.

    • Alex says

      BILL, u serously wana talk about rediculous?? The rediculous thing is the greenies and eco friendly nut cases who CLAIM that cfls will clean up the planet and stop global warming. Now, if u like CFLs for what ever reason, then u have the right to use them. They have been trying to improve on the light quality on these cfls for many years and their lighting still sucks. Anybody who cant tell the difference between an incandescent or a cfl needs to get their eyes checked out. If u have good vision, then u can defitnetly see the difference in the kind of light they put out. Maybe YOU don’t mind congress running ur life and telling u how to live but most ppl would rather choose for themselves. And if these CFLs were really inproving like u claim they are, then people will buy them with out anybody’s REGULATIONS. My grandmother bought a beautiful crystal chandelier a month ago. I think that most ppl would agree that a crystal chandelier looks much nicer with incandescents. Who the hell would wana put flourecent lights on a chandelier??? Over a stupid belief that cfls will save the planet????? U must be out ur mind! Until these moron greenies and liberals start paying for my light bill, I will decide what bulbs best suit me. In my opinion, incandescent lights are much more pleasent and nicer. I dont know about u but im proud of my home and i will not convert my home looking like the inside of a gas station or office. I think they’re other ways to save the environment. If u wana talk about rediculious, the bulb ban is whats rediculious. I can accept change as long as its reasonable. The ban is not only unreasonable, but stupid and yes, I have also stocked up on hundreds of boxes of good old edisons. The only way i wont use incandescents anymore is if the light bulb police comes to my door and arrests me.

  182. Tom says

    If the US bans Incandescent bulbs and pushes CL bulbs, sounds great, however, not only will it cut jobs in the US but will encourage trade with China. They have the only CF bulb manufacturing plants in the world.

  183. Mike says

    What many people dont seem to realize is that incandescent bulbs are NOT… i repeat.. are NOT being phased out. They only want more efficiency into incandescents. There are already light bulbs that meet the energy efficient standard such as Halogen. There are many incandescents that are not included in the efficiency standards such as….. Anything under 40watts, over 100watts, 3way lighting, appliance lights, flood lights, colored lights, specialty lights (such as candelabra, decorative and globe lights)

  184. Mike says

    I’m still waiting for KEITH to make more of an idiot of himself. i bet the old man is punching a few walls knowing that incandescent bulbs will still be around

  185. Connie says

    Just in case, I have stocked up! Every time I go to Target or Walmart I buy 4 boxes of light bulbs. I have enough to last me till I’m in my 80′s and then will have enough to pass onto my grandchildren. I’ll be telling my grandchildren, when I was your age, we had these great light bulbs………….and here they are!! I’ve purchased the new one’s and after a week, just couldn’t take it anymore – had to put in the good old one’s. Does this also include Nightlights??? I HATE the new night lights – they do not have enough “light”……….just hate em. So, I’ve been stocking up on those as well……….just in case. Light Bulbs are not going to SAVE this Planet. Let us keep our old light bulbs!!!!

  186. Steven says

    I’m a film student with an empahsis in DP studies and lighting. I have run stage shows and used all types of lights on my movies. This is my opinion.

    CFLs vs incandecent vs LED

    LEDs clearly are the winner for the future, but as of now they are still expensive for mass replacement. A 100 watt equivilant still costs close to $30 a bulb. However they are highly color accurate and can produce virtually any type of light. Practically unbreakable, extremely energy efficient, and produce little to no heat. No Mercury, cool to the touch. And with that technology it is possible to change color, and strobe, ect. By far my favorite, when I get them.

    CFLs not to bad at the moment. They are affordable, and quite energy efficient. They have gotten better. The catch here is they are good “if you know what your looking for”. Color temperature is important but so is CRI, the higher the CRI the less green “gloom”. Incandescent look fans should get around K 3000. THey can get hot but won’t usually burn. Murcury is a downside, but reasonable. They sorta look funny too. I use them on sets all the time and they give a great soft glow. I wouldn’t overlook them. some are dimable and the good ones can go to less than 5%.

    Incandescent – in my opinion with today’s technology they make a better heater than they do a light. people like the color simply because it’s been the only thing available for more than 10 years. They are not white but yellow. to make them any other color it cuts the amount of light. They get hot, and can start fires. (they stopped being my primary lighting source one melted the interior of one of the cars) Dimmible yes, but the filament doesn’t give almost any light until over %50 of the energy is running through it. Not to mention they are extremely fragile. Now I mostly only use them when were outside and the cast is getting cold. But they are cheap, and somethings only come in them. (ERS’s)

    Other bulbs worth mentioning:
    Arc lamps (Salt, HMIs, ect) – efficient, bright, and sometimes dangerous. UV issues, explosions. But all these factors can be accounted for. Not really practical for residential use.

    Florecent – practically the same as CFL’s just shaped differently. THey have their own socket and work great in some applications. Efficient, large, good choice of color, need a balast though. And sometimes they;re too big. But I use them.

  187. says

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